pavedwave longboarding distance longboarding, flatland pumping, cross-country adventuring, boardwalk cruising, and all things skateboarding and good times
Joined: 15 Aug 2009 Posts: 36 Location: redmond washington
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: push frequency question
for a solid flatland pace, how many pushes do you guys average per minute? _________________ Derek Munson
masakatsu agatsu
http://www.alienallstars.com
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 418 Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:14 am Post subject:
So, Ive been putting in some serious time on my pusher. Now, Im not changing camps or anything but I have noticed a few things. My time for my usual trail run is faster on the pusher, my lower back hurts less (something thats been holding me back lately) and I go through significantly less water. To compare:
Pumper: Subsonic Pulse, Bennett 4.3, Airflow 110, White Avilas and Lime Bigzigs
I would say my pumper is built more for comfort than speed and the pusher could be a little lower (flip the hangars maybe) but it has at least let me compare the two. Even though i can only push regular efficently (still working on my mongo) I would say overall Im faster and less tired after a pusher run than a pump.
I think I have stated this before but at a fast pace pushing is more efficient, at a melow pace I feel LDP is more efficient, and for absoloute top spped on flat LDP is faster, but I think pushing can do more distance in a day consider the pace is above what is energy effiencient for LDP when skating over 250 miles. _________________
Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 1120 Location: seattle wa usa
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:38 am Post subject:
LDPanda wrote:
My time for my usual trail run is faster on the pusher...
My push-commutes to and from work shave about 4-5 minutes off each hour's ride, for about the same effort -- back around 2000 most of my commutes were push-only, I was mainly on a Curve (Subsonic) dropped deck, then moved to the rollsrolls soon after and started splitting my rides between topmounted pumpers and the rolls. My push commute times have always been the faster "baseline" to strive pumping toward. So even though I devote most of the year to pumping, the constant rain and falling leaves through the fall/winter months renews my appreciation for pushing, although just now the Burke trail is effing BRUTAL with leaf-cover.
Although the whole reason the pavedwave site came to existence was wrapped around the concept of the long distance PUMP, I'll always stay with the camp of skateboarding, whether that's pumping or pushing. I actually push a lot more than people think even on my topmounted "pump" outings -- it's funny because more than a few times when someone new rides along they'll fall behind and watch me for a while then say "hey I thought you pumped up all the hills" ... haha. No. The big "lie" of pavedwave. The truth is (and I've always contended this), I think pumping and pushing need to be balanced, you go with what's more efficient based on the terrain.
I'll continue to focus the pavedwave site on pumping, because that's where I get the most energy return back, where the soul of the board, and skateboarding comes alive for me. To me pumping is the "soul" of long distance skateboarding...
But pump worshipping aside...
The big question on ultra-long distances is how well the body holds up -- and that can change day by day. I think if you train mainly by pushing, you'll train those muscle groups the most and figure out the points of pain that have to be overcome... the same holds true for pumping. I wished I could have pushed the whole ultraskate 7 with Paul. Had it not rained, I might have been able to pump it all because my aerobic conditioning was at a peak, but what really kept me in the "support" mode that night was my right achilles tendon, which made me decide not to slog it through the rain. Rain and pushing definitely go together better than pumping. In the end, I thoroughly enjoyed the experience of watching both Ted and Paul in their respective record rides. And it looks like this Friday, I'll likely be testing the push theory again!
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 418 Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:57 am Post subject:
The main thing i notice in terms of efficiency is the amount of water i go through. When im pumping, i always wear my camelpak and usually end up drinking maybe a litre of water every 20 miles (very rough guess). When im pushing, somtimes i dont even take water for my 18-20 mile weekday workouts, other times ill carry a small pint bottle of water in my pocket. I dont pretend to know how water consumption correlates to efficency but i defenitely find myself using less water pushing. I also find its less mentally draining for me. With giant wheels that easily roll over small children, i dont have to stress so much about pinecones, sticks, leaves, intersections, cracks, etc, etc. I do have to worry more about pedestrians though as im somewhat less manueverable.
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 Posts: 59 Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:31 am Post subject:
Paul said himself that he got a stress fracture during that 250 miler. Pushing tends to hurt my feet after too long. I think combining pushing and pumping will amount to the greatest dispersion of stress over the entire body and will allow us to go faster/longer. Paul seems to be pretty solid pushing with both legs. I'm not an exceptional regular pusher but I am very solid pushing mongo. My other leg will have to be my pump. Now, to save up some cash for some Radikals or the likes to lower my setup by a half inch...
One nice thing about pushing on a pump setup is the board tends to block all that water splash that you get from the wheels on boards with cutaways.
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 418 Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:45 am Post subject:
Running radikals for long distance sounds like a problem to me. Its gonna be way twitchy for pushing, have a very tight pump, relitively low top end speed, be very uncomfortable and not very durable. Id imagine youd end up seizing one of those sphericals before too terribly long. Not to mention radikals are extremely expensive for the type of abuse we put our trucks through. If you feel like you have to drop mad cash, go for virages. Radikals are excellent slalom trucks but i would never use them for long distance.
edit: oh, yeah, and you have to tighten the kingpin with a 7mm wrench about every half hour.
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The truth is (and I've always contended this), I think pumping and pushing need to be balanced, you go with what's more efficient based on the terrain.
