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dmccoach

Who has Tried this??

OK Folks,

I continue to experiment (sphericals, 4.3 5, 6 Bennets - Airflow rear, varying wedges, etc. and having fun) -- But this one surprised me!  I will tee this up as a bit of a puzzle.

Look at the attached pictures representing my latest experiment with my Sub.  I do not like the Tracker, but I own only one Airflow and it is on the back of my Roe - so I have been "working" with this Tracker and the Sub.

So I tried this:




What is different?  Well - IMHO -- IT WORKS GREAT - and provides tremendous leverage and effieiency - I was shocked, but try it.

IMHO, it has efficiency advantages - With is I did 12 miles yesterday (mostly flatland with one significant hill and perhaps 140 yard of pushing - the rest was pumping) in about 50 minutes with this setup.  

(Let me edit this and be specific on the ride - here in NE PA we have a series of "Rail to Trail" rides or parks - so they are built on old Trolley and/or RR Beds - along rivers, creeks, through back neighborhoods, etc.  If they are a loop (which this one is) they tend to have gentle grades and few hills - The one I have been riding has a gentle grade then turns into town where a hill has to be climbed for perhaps a mile - I can pump about 2/3 of the hill - then back to a gentle grade down to complete the loop - It is no free ride - mostly pumping hard to maintain speed - 6 miles in all for one loop.  It's a beautiful ride particularly this time of year in NE PA).

Try it yourself and please report your results...
pavedwave

haha, wicked.  so you're running the tracker backward on the rear?   or is the main point that the rear is narrower than the front  (not to mention, mounted backwards!)   a puzzle indeed... i think that would have a kind of "drifty" ride effect?   i've been running my rear split narrower than the bennett, but not backward!

there's one seattle engineer guy who used to show up at slalom races on a board with seismics front and rear, with NO springs in either truck, and he ran a quick turn in front and also a quick turn in back, but the rear one mounted backward, I think.   it was a bizarre feeling board but the guy could make it through the cones, and nobody else could  :-p
dmccoach

You called it out too quickly - go try it then call it out and tell us what you think...  It is the backwards Tracker in the rear - has nothing to do with wider front-narrower rear...

Just try a tracker reversed in the rear - and wedge it (i.e. set up the de wedge - about 7 degrees - as IF you were going to run it forwards i.e. pin forward, but turn the Tracker around - get waht I mean?)

This has less to do with wedging than running it backwards - but try wedging it backwards (i.e to improve the reversed turn backwards)...

This is 15 degrees front - bennet 6.0 and 7 degrees rear backward Tracker

Trust me - try it.

p.s. This has efficiency/leverage benefits for pumping that I think I can and will try to explain later.
edp_swakakin

I will try this tonight. With the Gbomb brackets it's as easy as  1, 2, and clip.  Thanks for the idea!!!!
stocago

It was dark already, but I had to try it anyway. It's very strange, like the board is fighting with itself. It takes a while to get up to speed. I couldn't really pump from the back, it was all from the front. It would require at least a six-lane highway for the turning radius. It was all very interesting. I'll have to play around some more in the daylight.
dmccoach

I have found that once up to speed, and when you really want to kick it into high gear - lean back a bit and groove heavier onto the back foot - then it seems to dig in well.

Additionally, when on reasonably flat or slightly down hill (like a 1 or 2 percent down hill grade) - try surf style but back on the board - with back foot offcenter and front foot offcenter (in my case goofy footed - right foot offcenter right and back foot offcenter left - use front heel to dig and left ball of foot or toes in back to dig - with them off center you will get great leverage this way...)

Finally - I will film myself - it's possible (probable) I have a different (than typical) style...  I will see if I can post a clip later today.

stocago wrote:
It was dark already, but I had to try it anyway. It's very strange, like the board is fighting with itself. It takes a while to get up to speed. I couldn't really pump from the back, it was all from the front. It would require at least a six-lane highway for the turning radius. It was all very interesting. I'll have to play around some more in the daylight.
VANILLA GUERILLA

I gotta see this.
LD skater since 1971

Reminds me of the Nash complete skateboards that came with backwards trucks every so often I would see at Kmart.
But I have seen kids mount their trucks this way not knowing better on their street boards they had been skating on it for weeks with no damage to the board or truck so it could work. Maybe even push you faster with it mounted that way.
It fun to experiment with set ups on your skateboard you never no what you might discover. Plus you learn more about the board what setting does what. Or how different truck or wheels perform.
dmccoach

Videos

OK Folks,

I set out to capture just a few minutes of my style with this reversed truck and I ended up making a documentary of this particular, beautiful trail ride...

Enjoy each as you will (or not) - (sorry for the squeaky bushings)

http://www.youtube.com/user/dmccoach1

p.s. I uploaded these in chronological order, but it looks like uTube lists them in most recent uploaded order to oldest - so the order is reversed.
stocago

I checked out all of your videos (in chrono order). Thanks for taking the time to record your ride and sharing it. You are very fortunate to live in such a beautiful area with access to these trails. The pavement quality looks to be pretty good as well. I'd guess that the climate may not always be favorable. I hate the Florida climate, and yet I'm able to skate year-round. I also often curse the lack of hilly terrain, but for LDP I really shouldn't complain. I should consider myself rather lucky.
VANILLA GUERILLA

I like your flow. It looks effortless.
edp_swakakin

I 2nd that. Nice work.
dmccoach

More Leverage

So I have been thinking about why I like the Trackers set up backwards and I believe it is because it provides more leverage against the pump... (I think I'm gonna reverse my airflow in my Roe and try it too...)

I observe that I pump "against the stroke" which means that I am pushing against each turn back to center...  With the trucks reversed, the back of the board is moving in the same direction as the turn (i.e. front truck) although at a much slower rate than the front - this allows me to push "against the turn" of the back truck.

When set up normally in the rear - the rear trucks essentiall "chase" (i.e. they go "out and around") the front truck and when trying to pump this way, you are essentially also pushing the rear truck "out and around" (if you will) of the front truck - This is of course the essence of a wonderful carve (which we do on carving boards - done to a controlled extreme and one will slide the board).  Obviously the board will not easily (if at all) slide when set up like this, but I am not sure I see us old guys sliding while out there pumping....

Essentially with it reversed you are pushing (pumping) against the turn of the rear truck.

Well - that's my theory and I'm sticking to it...

Anyone else tried this for any length of time?

Thanks - have fun

p.s.  by the way, my son saw a few of the videos and said "... dad, that's really boring..."  LOL
VANILLA GUERILLA

Well. I am excited to try it but my two fractured ribs are keeping me from it. I guess I LDP better than I downhill. I still say it was a freak accident though.
aschmidt

Dig the rear wheel lift...

I dig the rear wheel lift in the clip as you ride towards the camera...
geolemon

At the tail end of the trail and bridge video, there's a shot down at the rear wheels - it doesn't move like it's reversed there - is it reversed in all these vids?   Confused

This thread has me wondering about something that I've been pondering since I had a Randal on the back - dewedged to the point that it might as well be a door hinge...
What would a truck be  like in the back that simply had no turn - just bushings and side-to-side motion?  It seems like this shows that at a minimum, it wouldn't be a disadvantage.
dmccoach

If you watch the "last leg" video which you reference -- with the bridge in the shot -- all the way to its end, you will see that I jump off the board, flip it over and show the reversed, wedged truck in the rear - this series is all from the same morning run referenced in Post #1 of this thread -- all with the truck in the rear reversed.

More than a dead truck in the rear (i.e. no turn), this set up provides some turn in the same direction as the front truck but at about 20% or less of the rate of the front truck.

geolemon wrote:
At the tail end of the trail and bridge video, there's a shot down at the rear wheels - it doesn't move like it's reversed there - is it reversed in all these vids?   Confused

This thread has me wondering about something that I've been pondering since I had a Randal on the back - dewedged to the point that it might as well be a door hinge...
What would a truck be  like in the back that simply had no turn - just bushings and side-to-side motion?  It seems like this shows that at a minimum, it wouldn't be a disadvantage.
dmccoach

VANILLA GUERILLA wrote:
Well. I am excited to try it but my two fractured ribs are keeping me from it. I guess I LDP better than I downhill. I still say it was a freak accident though.


Ouch!!  Sorry to hear this - what the heck happened?
VANILLA GUERILLA

I had what is called a wedge rock stop me dead at speed ( much the same as hitting a curb) and, well... you can guess what happened. I'm all good though. Be back pumping in a week.
edp_swakakin

Yeah VANILLA GUERILLA really sorry to hear that.  Heal up soon.
pavedwave

Re: More Leverage

dmccoach wrote:

Anyone else tried this for any length of time?

Thanks - have fun

great viddy, very smooth!  it is that kind of side to side driftiness, reminds me of the first set of randals I put on the wrong way at work once, too impatient to ride outside, I slammed into one of the walls  Wink   are you going to stick with this type of setup?   pretty cool to see where this goes.   i will definitely see about finding that boeing guy and his seismic setup from the slalom gigs, like I said nobody else could really make it through the cones on his rig, except him, he had that alternate feel down, though his actual race times were nowhere near as fast, it looked like some really surfy fun.

and Vanilla heal up man, maybe you should add "wedge rock" to this thread - that sucks as bad as a wet pinecone!!  http://pavedwave.myfastforum.org/about11.html
dmccoach

Re: More Leverage

pavedwave wrote:
dmccoach wrote:

Anyone else tried this for any length of time?

Thanks - have fun

great viddy, very smooth!  it is that kind of side to side driftiness, reminds me of the first set of randals I put on the wrong way at work once, too impatient to ride outside, I slammed into one of the walls  Wink   are you going to stick with this type of setup?   pretty cool to see where this goes.   i will definitely see about finding that boeing guy and his seismic setup from the slalom gigs, like I said nobody else could really make it through the cones on his rig, except him, he had that alternate feel down, though his actual race times were nowhere near as fast, it looked like some really surfy fun.

and Vanilla heal up man, maybe you should add "wedge rock" to this thread - that sucks as bad as a wet pinecone!!  http://pavedwave.myfastforum.org/about11.html



Vanilla - I get tossed pretty frequently (like once per week but I ride a lot too) - this time of year in the NE the trees are dropping all kinds of hazards (acorns, nuts, cones).

James - I am going to stick with this setup - here is the bottom line for me w/the Tracker in the rear - It works better for me - I claim it is more efficient.  

I am going to do two actions next:
1. Reverse my Airflow on my Roe and report those results back here - I may video me on the Roe w/the Airflow reversed too
2. Take some before and after video - i.e. put the Tracker on forward (the right way) - video my self - Reverse the Tracker - video again - place the comparative results out there
pavedwave

i love innovation and i really like experimentation like this.   i'd play around with the reverse truck but right now i'm all focused on getting the Seismic rear dialed just right  (and diggin it, btw!!)  

so keep rockin the reverse truck --- and ya know the phrase about "walking a mile in someone's shoes"?  well, i always think one of the best ways to gauge efficiency is ride your original setup hard as you can for one mile, then switch it up to the flipped truck and ride it another mile again... and again, both directions, etc. -- ergo, the perfectly flat "Cyber Mile!"  

I think timing a structured mile is a really good, empirical way to compare things like bushings, wheels, trucks and the like.
dmccoach

James - OT - what are you doin' w/the Seismic?  Is it on another thread?

Additionally, I will do some timing and perhaps video part of the time trial... and report here


Thanks

pavedwave wrote:
i love innovation and i really like experimentation like this.   i'd play around with the reverse truck but right now i'm all focused on getting the Seismic rear dialed just right  (and diggin it, btw!!)  

so keep rockin the reverse truck --- and ya know the phrase about "walking a mile in someone's shoes"?  well, i always think one of the best ways to gauge efficiency is ride your original setup hard as you can for one mile, then switch it up to the flipped truck and ride it another mile again... and again, both directions, etc. -- ergo, the perfectly flat "Cyber Mile!"  

I think timing a structured mile is a really good, empirical way to compare things like bushings, wheels, trucks and the like.

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