stridey
|
Virage 'Vite' front truckJust thought I'd give an update on the new front Virage 'Vite' we are working on.
The Vite is intended as tight slalom front truck, and with a (slightly) wider hanger as a front LDP truck.
We have been working on these for a while, the arrival of a new four axis machine at the workshop has led the machinists to explore different methods of milling the truck from the Virage LDPS already out there.
The entire look of the truck will be radically (no pun intened) different to whats out there at the moment. Think more along the lines of a Lazer truck than a Bennett, but with a bit of Virage thrown in. Integrated riser and wedge as standard.
The 'Vite' will be available as a hanger, or baseplate, or both, and will be Bennett compatible.
Pic to follow....
|
cappa
|
viteLove the Virages & looking forward to these. Have you found a solution to the 'kingpin bite' problem that the wedged Bennetts suffer from?
|
stridey
|
| Quote: | | Have you found a solution to the 'kingpin bite' problem that the wedged Bennetts suffer from? |
Two ideas we are working on, one a Grind King style inverted kingpin. Another we are still working on, but uses the regular kingpin set up.
Priority one is ride and feel. Spent this afternoon working out a few ideas, basically the entire base plate is made from cylinders of alli, held side on, and the hangers are milled in almost one operation, hard to describe but with the axle holes drilled first, then held in place as it is milled.
One thing this leads to is a thicker baseplate than on the Virage but we have a unique idea there that will make board assembly easier. A neat trick.
My machinists are using the truck as a learning process for their new machine, looks like it will be almost 'press a button, return a few minutes later to a truck'.... They assure me it will look amazing on video...can't wait!
Today was spent milling a truck in plastic, just to test the path of the drill bit.
|
egret
|
I'm interested in a baseplate probably. I don't really care about adding riser, just wedges. Make it as low as possible, you know? If peope can pump a g bomb they could pump a board with cutouts. $.02. The pita for me is the different length bolts.
Edit: I mean adding the wedging is enough. I will add flat risers myself. It is easier to make a board higher than lower.
|
stridey
|
Totally agree Egret.
We hope to make one baseplate, for slalom and LDP.
I think keeping bolts short really helps feel and directness. In and ideal world Id like most riders to use a 1/8th soft riser, then the Vite baseplate. I think that with differening wheel and deck setups some riders will want to add risers, and sure, some will want a small amount of angle, but not to the extent of the current jenga towers most riders are using.
|
blake
|
By bennett compatible do you mean Bennett Hanger+Vite Baseplate or Vite Hanger+Bennett Baseplate or maybe even both?
|
stridey
|
Both!
I want people who have tweaked their boards using Bennetts to consider buying just a Vite Hanger, to gain a spherical bearing or plug in the hanger, 8mm reversed axles with integrated speed rings and smooth machined pivot.
Some people may want just a baseplate. No problem. This would remove the jenga towers of risers.
Some people will want both.
...and to whet your appetites further and as a nod to the history of Bennett we are prototyping some baseplates made from.....plastic! ....well actually glass loaded acetal..... with todays industrial processes it just MIGHT be possible to make plastic baseplates that dont break! Its worth a try!
Here is a sneak of how chunky the baseplate is looking. It is purposefully simple, and lack the Virages lines, but this is a different style truck, deserving a fresh approach using the machines and materials we now have available and using what we have learned form the Virage LDPs.
You can see the the bolt holes have a slot for the nut. The reasoning behind this is that due to our machining process the baseplate needs to be thicker than the Virage LDP as it is where the CNC grips the shape, too thin and the side would wobble... think of a drill bit in a chuck flopping about. But what we will do to make a positive from this is to make a slot for the nut. SO when you mount the trucks I envisage you will hold the nut in with your thumb as you do the nut up. Should save you using a socket on that side, which is sometimes awkward as the hanger and wheels can get in the way.
|
blake
|
...i have to change my underwear now  thanks alot stridey. and do you have a price yet? or maybe what yout hink they will cost
|
stocago
|
I don't suppose there is a demand for a 6.0 hanger, huh?
|
WiZzY
|
When are they ready for production?
|
stridey
|
Very nearly.
Maybe one week. Maybe two.
We have been experimenting with some nice materials and just want to get things right.
|
stridey
|
Update...now in the machine,
top two pics are pretty much the final stage of hangers (minus the spherical) and a sneak at one of the prototype composite baseplate I'm testing.Very lightweight. The angles being tested vary, thats a shallow one, but we also have what equats to Bennet plus 15 degrees.
|
LDPanda
|
Looking good! Couple quick questions, is it possible to have a 6-hole baseplate? If not, will it be OS or NS drilling? With the area around the holes recessed (presumably to minimize the length of hardware needed?) will it be more difficult to tighten down a nut with a socket wrench? Anyway, it looks like its really coming along. Correct me if im wrong on this but since the axles are removable, someone like stocago who wants a wider hangar could install longer axle segments and use spacers, no? Bennet +15 would be AMAZING for me, all id have to add is a khiro soft wedge and me on my way, that would be killer.
|
blake
|
yeah thats really cool i like that idea alot
|
stridey
|
Production version have 6 holes.
The slot is an idea as we are using thicker baseplate due to production process, the slot is about 1/3rd nut height and sized to exactly a Khiro (US standard) Nut, so if you dont have a tool but strong finger you should be able to tighten up things but the remaining nut profile would still allow socket use.
Initail width is the slalom 104. I'll send a set to pavedwave for testing the same as we did with Virages...by using longer axles and spacers it tests things to the limit.
next would be the 124mm.
If a wider width is needed Id be keen to make a specific hanger. Feedback needed!
I should clarify, thats a 15 degree IN ADDITION to the tilt inherent in a Bennett, are you really running a 22 degree wedge on your Bennets LDPanda??
|
stocago
|
A Bennett 6.0 hanger is 153mm wide, so you could offer a 154mm version. I'll commit to a purchase, but is anyone else interested? Would there be more of a demand for 144mm?
|
stridey
|
Hey, if you commit to a purchase I'm sure we can make 153mm! 
I think, realistically We will have to do this in stages. I think I will need to offer a couple of different baseplate angles, and widths of hangers.
Cant quite see why you guys are going wide, as width slows things down turn wise. Is it to keep speed wobbles low?
|
egret
|
154mm is very tempting but I would have to see prices first before committing.
|
LDPanda
|
Yes, I really ride 22* on my bennets. Its probably slightly less because the khiro soft wedge im using has been stomped down so much but i use a 80a khiro soft wedge and 15* khiro rails. Not the fastest on flatland but it rips up hills and is really easy to pump for a long time.
Edit: If you were to ask me for my ideal width, i would prefer 4.5 inches or 115 mm, just slightly wider than the bennett 4.3. I think the reason some opt for a wider truk, like the 6.0, is for higher top end speed (at the cost of more energy input) rather than to reduce wobbles on hills.
|
SoloRider
|
This is pretty interesting stuff 125-130 would be awesome. I'm curious about that baseplate, what's the material?
| LDPanda wrote: | | Yes, I really ride 22* on my bennets. Its probably slightly less because the khiro soft wedge im using has been stomped down so much but i use a 80a khiro soft wedge and 15* khiro rails. Not the fastest on flatland but it rips up hills and is really easy to pump for a long time. |
That's the same setup I run.
|
stocago
|
Okay, I guess I have to backpedal. I love Bennett Truks and I really like the ideas here, but I'm not made of money. What will the ballpark price be in US dollars?
|
pavedwave
|
| stridey wrote: | If a wider width is needed Id be keen to make a specific hanger. Feedback needed!
I should clarify, thats a 15 degree IN ADDITION to the tilt inherent in a Bennett, are you really running a 22 degree wedge on your Bennets LDPanda?? |
I'd plan to space it out to start around 127mm. I know it seems extreme but we do tend to run in the 18--21 degree wedging range. Panda's right, there is some "smoosh" factor with the soft 7-degree wedge + 15 khiro riser so the actual is probably about 21 degrees. This pic I posted up a while back was on a setup I rode a long time @ 19 deg...
|
stridey
|
I think the above picture shows why we use you as a tester!
Comments noted and we will have some fun in the next few weeks while we test!
|
stridey
|
Some more spy shots,,,,,keeping the hanger up my sleeve till preliminary testing is doen over the weekend, weather permitting, but not far off the rendering.
|
blake
|
dude those are sexy. any price range yet????
|
stridey
|
reasuringly expensive?
Nah, seriously we dont do these to make money. And costs that people dont see are the protos, the two-ing and fro-ing between home and the machinists.
So, while they will never be 'cheap' we do hope that for some people they will be 'good value'.
|
blake
|
thats waht i was hoping to here
|
stridey
|
More pics , we have a few little tweaks and fettling to do (mainly cosmetic to thge baseplate to help is visually match the hanger better, and a small mod to the hanger)...hopefully ready to take orders next week.
The little 'trough' or channel for the mounting nuts works really well. And allows for a good tight setup. In practice the nut is easily held in place by a finger and doing up the bolt with just a hex key or a phillips head was super easy.
|
LDPanda
|
WOW!  Looking great. Have you decided to move away from the composite baseblate and stick to aluminum? Or is that just for your mock ups? Or am i just confused?
|
stridey
|
Ali first. Its a known quantity.
Then we play with composite just because we can.....and its a 'nod' to Bennett.
The area around the top bushing in the hanger is being shaved a bit. And as I say I want the baseplate to be a bit more linked visually to the hanger. Its only when you see the truck in the flesh do these design areas really show themselves.
The nut 'trough' idea works really well, and is a result of beefing up that thickness to help production. You can really crank those nuts down tight and while its a small improveent in holding things in place I take the view that lots of little improvement all add up.
|
SoloRider
|
Looks like your machinist finally got his way and ran the program to completion. 
|
cappa
|
Nice trucks!
What's the height of the Vite compared to the rear Virage?
Will you be adding the nut channel to the Virage baseplates?
|
stridey
|
| Quote: | What's the height of the Vite compared to the rear Virage?
|
Baseplate height is being finalised in testing, but its designed to be a 'stand alone truck, either hanger or baseplate, and as the Virage LDP is a low running combo the Virage Vite isnt necessarily designed to match the LDP either visually or technically.
| Quote: | | Will you be adding the nut channel to the Virage baseplates? |
No plans to do that, the reason for the increased thickness of the Vites baseplate is to allow a different production method in a new machine. The truck is milled by being held by that flange (?) so by bieng thicker than a Virage it doesnt wobble in the machine. Adding the 'English' channels is just an idea to use that thickness in a clever way. Adding channels to the LDPs would mean we would have to thicken that area, or weaken it.
I had a few request for close ups of the hanger, remember its not the final final final version...but close.
|
JeffVyain
|
wow, that is beautiful. and cheaper than the virage eh? you're making me salivate
|
cappa
|
| stridey wrote: | | Quote: | What's the height of the Vite compared to the rear Virage?
|
Baseplate height is being finalised in testing, but its designed to be a 'stand alone truck, either hanger or baseplate, and as the Virage LDP is a low running combo the Virage Vite isnt necessarily designed to match the LDP either visually or technically.
|
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I know it's a standalone truck - I was just wondering what the height difference was compared to the Virage rear, as I plan to pair the Vite up with my Virage.
Looking forward to hearing more about the Vite.
|
stridey
|
Final specs havent been sorted, I will be sending a set Stateside for feedback as to optimal LDP settings. We found that comparing directly with Bennett angles was a mistake, even though its compatible. Also running through imaginary cones was different to actually running cones, so getting an LDP 'er to test in real world conditions is the only way to go.
So I am envisaging possibly different baseplate angles for slalom and LDP uses.
This was written by Sam Gordon, after testing the Vite last weekend in London:
| Quote: | Michael and I have been testing the Vite on the flat in Hyde Park today. It's turning action is buttery smooth with quick turn initiation when run flat to the deck (zero riser angle). Despite my initial concerns that the front end might be too twitchy, the board whistled through 5 1/2 ft straight with ease and with a progressive, yet snappy feel. Lovely!
At the current angle, little riser is needed. The wheel travel path is fast turning, but moves in a comparatively horizontal plane, so that vertical travel in the turning action is not so great. No need of huge amounts of riser, then.
We then tested the truck dewedged to see how it would operate. First 5 degrees of steering was taken out, then 8 degrees.
Both angles felt smooth and progressive when freeriding, the 8 degree lending itself towards a hybrid course turn. Whilst the freeriding option shoud not be dismissed, the Vite is designed to be a fast turning truck first and foremost. With the exaggeratedly reduced turn angle (-8*) the progressive turn feel was improved a little, however this marginal benefit was outweighed y a greater comparative reduction in tun initiation. Vertical wheel travel at this angle as also greatly increased so demanding a higher flat riser to prevent wheelbite.
The 5 degree reverse wedge helped to return much of the snap that had been reduced by the -8 riser. Progression in turn rate seemed similar. Excellent for freeride, however when run through cones the turn initiation was not quite as rapid as preferred.
We then returned to running the truck flat again. Turn initiation was great, as was the progressive feel, however the shoulders of the bushing seat served to work as turn limiters, so preventing the fullest arc of turn to be tested. Whilst this made the truck operate very well on the tight straight course, final turn point and tipping/pitching point could not be determined. In other words, how would the truck behave at the steepest part of its turn?
All of this will be addressed through new machining in prototype version 2. Given that many of today's slalom decks have a sight upturn at the nose (Pavl Pirnack for example), a couple of steering degrees are incidentally added to the baseplate, so steepening the angle. Version 2 will therefore be reduced in angle by 3 degrees as both security measure (to prevent the possibility of pitching on step nosed decks) and to maintain turn initiation snap with progressive action. 3mm with be added to the truck height in order to accommodate the increased vertical wheel travel.
In such a way, the new version can be easily tuned using a 3 degree angled riser either to give the truck a super whippy turn initiation, or to make it the perfect choice for tight hybrid courses.
However you run the Virage Vite, you are really going to enjoy the precision feel of the smooth turning action offered up by its supertight tolerances and free-flowing bearing. Yum!!!
Sam |
|
stridey
|
picking these up later. Will hopefully be sending a set over within the week to Seattle for testing and feedback on angles/widths for LDP.
This is the tight slalom version. For the Virage LDPs james tested and tweaked the Slalom versions and I hope he can do the same with these to tell us some good LDP info.
We know the dimensions work for tight slalom, these new versions are really just improvements on style.
|
|
|
