| Archive for pavedwave longboarding distance longboarding, flatland pumping, cross-country adventuring, boardwalk cruising, and all things skateboarding and good times |
| northcoast |
thoughts on orangatangs?well, i've read that otangs like to slip out when you're REALLY pushing a pump...but can anyone verify this? |
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| Belegnole |
While I cannot personally verify it I have read quite a bit over at the Fish. Two things stand out in the conversations over there. One being that once they "break in" they slide very well. Two that they wear quickly....I have also heard that a number of people like them quite a bit for LDP. I know that Hanael used them for awhile...you might pm him and see what his final thoughts were. I'm curious as to what the current favorite wheels are myself. | ||||
| northcoast |
after testing a little, comparing between otangs and zigs, seems like the otangs roll "smoother" but the zigs hold a lot more grip in the fray. case in point: pushing back from class one day on otangs, i found that they really felt good and planted while pushing, and they rolled farther per push over crappy pavement. but, when i had both of the wheels on a small, turny DH course, the zigs held their turning lines a LOT better and felt a LOT more in control during the turns. i also did a little reading on the fish, and it seemed like once you slide the 'tangs, it's hard to get them to grip again...and i've drifted mine a little, during the aforementioned testing. | ||||
| Hanael |
i saw my name..
Yes, i love my 'tangs for LDP, better than bigzigs. yes, i hate my 'tangs for LDP, because they cone too fast. way too fast. After you drift these wheels, the weird wear pattern affects the ride a bit. You might feel your wheels grip at one time, and drifts at another time. However, as for roll, these 'tangs roll way smoother & longer than bigzigs. Tarantula STRs are other wheels you might wanna consider. |
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| pavedwave |
the first statement's opinion, that's all good~! the second thing I'm not so sure, you said they wear faster, but they roll longer? anyhow, I'm still waiting for more cyber times 
note that now we do have o-tangs on the Cyber mile page, Nat posted up from the UK! http://home.comcast.net/~jampet99/rides/cyber.html i'm definitely interested in a side by side, scientific time trial test now of BlackOps, Zigs, and O-tangs (has to be done by the same rider and would probably take several weeks...) who's got the cash flow for this 
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| Alec |
Nat probably, although I don't think he's got all of them now he has in the past had all of those. |
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| pavedwave |
yeah i got everything but the 'tangs. oh and "free time" too, whatever that is 
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| Hanael |
oh. yeah.. the cyber mile. damnit. i forget about it. As for roll speed, yes, they roll better than 'zigs, but they cone too fast, even for a 123lb rider like me. |
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| pavedwave |
yeah, i just switched to Adidas, i was wearing New Balance for so long, now I'm walking and running a lot faster, and the babes are swarming everywhere I go. life is rough. i love the scientific method!
i'd really like to see how otangs perform, but i still haven't seen the slalom scene pick them up in any meaningful numbers, and these are the guys who are seriously focused on pumping speed and shaving literally milliseconds off their race times. usually I'll drop some dime after I hear real world results or "same-course, different wheel" impressions. and based on the limited DH race results I've seen (namely the 2nd place at MFOS this year) the tangs are comparable, but it would be far too early to call them significantly faster than Zigs or BlackOps for that matter. right now, otangs sell in the quantities they do, to the longboarding market, primarily based off Adam Colton videos, and I'm absolutely impressed with the stand up slides and crazy footwork that man's got locked down, but that showcase of skills doesn't convince me that the tangs are a faster racing wheel. in the end I think it's just splitting hairs when it comes to getting out and pumping some miles for fun and for exercise. for most of the guys on places like SilverFish it's more important what color the wheels are and if it matches their decks "theme". I think that's a perfectly fine trail of logic to follow. buy what makes you happy. i'm just not convinced of wheel performance claims by what non-competitive teenage kids are sticking on their dervishes to carve and bomb hills. Gary Fluitt's 1-1 comparison studies on Zigs vs. BlackOps are what convinced me to finally try the Ops out. and ads like this one are mysteriously motivating as well
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| Hanael |
lol.
How about if i say "It rolls better for me, compared to bigzigs"? If you really wanna do some scientific stuff, go ahead & try it. I'll do the scientific stuff later on, if i feel like doing it. We're comparing them in LDP. I'm not gonna use the 'tangs for DH. I also not gonna pull the "...but k-rimes races on 'tangs too!". If i wanna make my wheels match with the board, i'd pick STRs over 'tangs...which is what i'm using now. Red GTCPLDP with red/black STRs looks nice. Also, I don't really follow SF's trend. I've tried 'tangs & zigs, and i like using 'tangs better than bigzigs for LDP. In the end, it's just matter of personal preference. You seem like you have something against Loaded, which is not my business. i guess you don't really want to try it yourself..which is fine too. |
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| pavedwave |
wow dude, don't be hatin. it's not that i don't like loaded. i just don't like seeing empty claims spammed here that one wheel is far superior than another, when there is as yet nothing objective to back that up. that stuff can stay over on SF -- a place now somewhat infamous for its "expert" opinions 
also, it's not that I don't "want" to try them either. i just don't scatter my money aimlessly, and when it comes to changing wheels, when I'm already perfectly happy with one, it takes time to test as well -- and most recently Fluitt, Dong, and Roe gave me ample performance feedback to convince me to try out the Ops. as i already said, if you like buying wheels based on colors and looks, do whatever you like, and if you "feel" like one wheel rolls nice, it's a free market, so enjoy!!! but i think your command of the English language is good enough to know when you've been stating preference as facts. yes, "rolls better for me" conveys a much different message. cheers and beers |
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| Hanael |
it's not hating lol.
i was just taking conclusion from your posts..haha. And yes, english is like what, my 3rd language? How about i ship you a set of those, and you try 'em out? 
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| Belegnole |
OK, you two back to your corners....
joking aside, I believe you two look at these things very differently. Hanael you look at your equipment subjectively. While James prefers the scientific method when making public statements about the quantitative differences in one product over another. While the both you may end up saying the same thing you arrive at your conclusion from differing paths. Now even from the Fish one can come up with some realistic answers to questions....it just takes a bit of winnowing. While not as accurate as good testing, faced with nothing else it can give us some idea as to how things fare. Personally though I would prefer scientific evidence to guide my purchases, I will take personal opinion over nothing at all. |
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| pavedwave |
yeah I never intend to discourage the voicing of personal opinions either -- quite the opposite. and you're right about my bias toward the science. since I have brought up Fluitts tests, I'm going to try finding that again on the Fish and post the link on the Black Ops thread.
one other random thought is that I've met both Chaput and Gesmer at various races in the Northwest. both of these guys have been dedicated to performance racing and on the scene all their lives. Chaput still races slalom and DH and generously sponsors events, and Gesmer flies all over the country, sets up and runs timing and commits his time, money and soul to the sport of slalom. so there is definitely some instant street cred to guys who are "out on the field" like this, supporting and racing, and getting instant feedback from top racers off the course. I do appreciate the offer for some test wheels, though I really wasn't lookin to acquire a new set through coercion but if you have a discount in the future I'd be happy to support the shop. maybe next spring when I'm really riding a lot harder again, right now the Ops and the Zigs comparisons are keeping me pretty busy. and this winter I'm doing a lot more "cross training" with a road bike in the wet leafy weather -- so soon we can post about which bicycle wheels are the fastest in the world? ... lol
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| Hanael |
Tell me what you need, and i can probably get it for you..and might also work on something. 
'Tangs are nice, but they're not the best wheels for me. I still love my flywheels....but you can't really use flys for LDP. 
If i had the $$$, i'd get the skyblues..but can't really afford anything new right now. ....poor college student, living from cold soba from day to day. -_-; |
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| pavedwave |
alright but now don't go conceding your point!! i only know what I know and I just want to hear more detailed information about what I don't know.
and in the end, after all the empirical data is laid out, I would conclude that the differences are pretty subtle, and that whether one goes for tangs, zigs, ops, hawgs, or what have you, anything will do just fine for 5--10 mile daily commutes. there are so many other variables. matching wheel hardness to road conditions is the biggest thing to consider. here's my basic take on why wheel testing does matter -- what works out to be the fastest wheel in a 30-second slalom course, means that each and every pump needs to be as efficient as possible, like in the cyber slalom course. only 25 cones, so 25 pumps. then I just take that data and extend it to LDP. what makes a subtle difference in the short course should make small and incremental differences in the "big course", meaning the Cyber Mile, on a controlled, smooth course. i'll always stick to whatever i feel are my 'best' wheels when I'm trying to definitively clock a mile. 100+ mile a day cross-country journeys require a different frame of mind. and so here's my basic take on why wheel testing doesn't matter -- the course changes a ton when you're going any significant distance. and so far, my fastest time on the seattle to portland 204-mile ride was 2006 (first year of three) and done on 72a Avilas, which should defy the logic of a harder, faster durometer resulting in a faster overall time. the difference is obvious to me -- it was nerves. I wasn't sure I'd even make it the first year, so I pushed myself harder the entire trip, for fear of sleeping under newspapers somewhere. and I rode the 72a's knowing there are long, horrible stretches of road on that ride. the conclusion is that sheer will is going to make the biggest difference, over subtle changes in wheel performance, when it comes down to real distance. until the pool of LDP players grows, that's about as scientific as it gets
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| Hanael |
lol k.
we'll see what i can do. imma try to do cyber mile sometime later, hopefully bigzigs vs 'tangs vs STRs. Hopefully i can sneak in to the velodrome to try it. |
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| Bullwings |
For me, it's about whatever makes me "feel good" and dampens the vibrations going through my front leg (which btw has a titanium rod in it due to a major tib-fib break i suffered while snowboarding).
I've been thinking of getting 73a avilas for the longest time, but i'm thinking heavy 75mm wheels might be a bit of work for me to pump - same with 76mm superballs, both of which are pretty wide with a solid core. Right now i'm pretty happy with my 80a 73mm speedvents. as for o'tangs. too much hype for it's own good as far as i'm concerned. anything that gets that much hype just can't be trusted. sure there's nothing scientific about what i'm saying, but hype is normally just that, hype, without substance to back it up. For the money, i can think of a number of other wheels i'd much rather try at this point - Tunnel STRs, 3dm avilas, and earthwing 76mm superballs. I've found the video game industry operates like this. Take for example, Halo3 - insane insane insane amounts of hype leading up to release, and for about 2-3 weeks after release. Granted, it was a good game, but not as good as the reviewers and all the hype made it out to be. I've found, in my own humble opinion a number of games to be better with greater longevity that received no where near the same kind of hype or reviews (this after 21+ years as a video gamer). There have been even worse games as far as hype goes, ones that even get bad reviews after months and months of hype leading up to release (and these are really bad) Granted, some hyped products live up to the hype, but more often than not, they fall short. damn, that was a long example. |
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| Hanael |
76mm sballs can be sluggish at times.
you better try STRs first.. |
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| edp_swakakin |
I know I’m late here but I’m choosing to ride this one out…….
But if I had to say something, “BZ 86a!!!. It’s what real men use.” JK JP man!! What are you doing DDT-ing my only local LDP buddy? You know good LDP friends don’t grow on trees….. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT_(professional_wrestling) " Neverthess I’ll still walk into the shop and ask him what’s new and what do you think of it? I trust and value his opinion. Hanael man I’m real sorry….I did a no show for the race. I feel extremely bad. Please forgive me. I support you guys. I’m very sorry about that. |
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| rodgon |
seconded on the STRs. they grip like nothing ive ridden before. they just will not slide out easy or you have to really really push them to slip. very nice wheel and fast. if they made it bigger it would be the best i think ( here i go hyping it up hahaha) | ||||
| Hanael |
rofl. no worries man.
There will be another time.
What kind of scientific method did you use?
*ahem* The STRs are actually quite drifty after awhile. drift / hookups are nicer than the 'tangs, but not as good as flys. |
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| stocago |
That is my favorite combo. Orange BZs in front for speed and Superballs in back for grip (and smoother Seismic ST30 ride). It's the best of both worlds. The 83a 77mm Black Ops Vents are a nice blend/compromise. I'm planning some scientific testing within the next week or two.
I'd like to ride the Loaded wheels, but I'm not ready to buy. |
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| petary791 |
Orangatangs have been working awesome on my Mosquito and Libido. Naturally the Libido is my slalom board and they've been gripping wonderfully, I'm just trying not to slide them. On my Mosquito it's weird because they drift when I want them to but when I'm pumping they stick really well. I'm almost afraid that one day something drastic is going to happen with them.
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| pavedwave |
Eric, the DDT thing cracked me up!! I'm always learning new stuff here, a little wrestling culture even
I really meant no offense toward Hanael, and I hope it wasn't taken. I just want to clarify that all this 'scientific' stuff came up ONLY because there were claims made here a couple months or so ago that "Tangs were faster than Zigs", not that Tangs "felt" faster than Zigs. And I think it's pretty obvious surfing around most of my pages, that you'll find most of the slalom gang has found through experience that Zigs and Seismics are pretty much the two top contenders for wheels that pump speed and hold grip, and have been for the last decade. The Tangs come onto the playing field this year mainly in DH, and for tooling around on hills, and "dancing"...they're still not widely adopted by slalom racers, but have taken the longboarding world by storm -- which is awesome. I would always support successes like this that encourage the growth of the sport, and I don't like to be characterized as dissing Loaded -- because I honestly don't. The Tangs have a very cool look, cool design, and they're perfectly great wheels. And I think threads that are critical of products can be just as good for their "promotion" sometimes. I think this just piqued my interest because I was still interested in the original conversation we had, where we talked about putting these wheels to the real test-- not "me against another guy" but rather "oneself against oneself" meaning, you ride your Zigs for a true, timed mile, then change up, then time the Tangs for a true mile. We do this stuff all the time in slalom on the "short course" -- like 25-cone cyber slalom. Guys like Gesmer and Chaput thrive on feedback from tests like this. Anyway its not all about speed, its not all about competition, in fact, most of my LDP experience is NON competitive and I like keeping it that way. But when it gets down to specific claims on speed of wheels, I simply want to hear what actually works "best." And rather than discourage opinions being spoken, I really just want to hear more. I did find an informative post on Northwestlongboarding by some downhillers which really explains a lot about the Tangs. The drift and slide of the wheels is really the key reason why these downhillers like these wheels over Zigs, and at the same time, it confirms my belief why guys with more of a background in slalom might still stick to their ever-grippy Zigs. Connor Harkey sez "i have the 4 prez on my drop through speedboard, and they are dope. I like them a bit more than bigzigs for my riding style because i like to do alot of pendies and such, and the otangs just felt smoother and with a more consistent and controlled slide/drift. IMO i think that the reflex formula is a bit grippier than the`orangatang formula when the wheels a broken in." Gabe sez "I also like how the wheels slide smoothly and they don't have the high amount of friction while sliding that reflex formula does. What I mean by this is that when reflex wheels slide they feel like all they want to do is grip back up as fast as they can where as orangatangs are ok with being sideways for them pendys, standies, or any other sliding and they don't just want to grip back up as fast as they can." http://www.northwestlongboarding....?id=JYhoRkzA&mv_arg=TOP102545 |
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| Hanael |
None taken.
i've had worse stuff over teh interwebz, so all's fine.
Also, i'm saving up to get a set of sky blue 'vents....hopefully i can get 'em within couple of weeks. ...hopefully. |
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| skatersjourney |
I managed to get a set of orange and purple in heats before Dorney last month, kindly provided by Octane Sports, and I have to say I love them. I stuck purples on the front and oranges on the rear of my mermaid and I panted it along (that means I went really fast) - I never felt like I was going to slide out...perhaps I don't have the weight behind my pumps like guys, but I do give it some!
O-Tangs = Thumbs up! |
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| Barry |
How Do All
Normally I would not say anything about the matters of what is better than what or whatever as it is all down to personal preference and style. I have 2 sets of lemon-lime BZ's (83a / 80a), 3 sets of 77mm speedvents black op's Translucent sky blue-purple (79a / 83a) an extra set of speed vents 77mm orange (75a) for when it gets too rough for the purples. I have a pair of purple O'tangs, inheats 75mm (83a) and 3 pairs of 68mm hotspots black ops, orange, blue and purple (76a / 80a / 84a) All I can say is that they all rock in their own way and I like to use them all at differnt times depending on how I feel and how they look with the boards. If I had to choose just one set of wheels though I would have to take the 77mm speed vents, the reason is that for me they feel like they roll with less resistance and feel a little quicker on my set ups, and I use the word feel as that may be all it is just a feeling. and cos I felt like it I rode my new board with orange vents on the back and purple inheats on the front today and it was great. Take care, Barry
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| northcoast |
in an odd twist of fate, i'm actually quoted on muirsurf's site in the reviews for otangs...whereupon, i call them on their hype and say "THEY'RE NOT WORTH IT!!!"
anywho, back to pumping. had my superglider out with it's 2009 setup today. i got a little bit of wheelrub once, just enough to make me notice...and it left a cool black streak on the wheel ! otangs, to me, feel quite nice while pumping...as i stated in my previous post in this thread, they do feel "softer" and there seems to be more energy return than zigs...as in, you get more "pump" per pump.
i really enjoyed the feeling of otangs, but there were a couple issues i noticed. first one was the rough patches felt quite rough, but they held quite well; the same spot where i'd feel a little sketch on zigs, i felt fine on 'tangs. the second was how they seem to be wearing...they don't seem to break in as quickly as everybody says they do. a little 2 mile trip like i did today has cleanly broken in zigs, but not these otangs. the official report from northcoast longboarding: sticking with my review on silvercrash, they've got their advantages and disadvantages over zigs...in the long run, zigs and otangs just about even out. s9 race forms, on the other hand, just plain blow...to compare the three wheels, i'd rank zigs and otangs tied for first, with RF's taking (it) up the rear |
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| wafflesole |
i like my tangs. i skated the last cybermile on purple and orange.
this is what i think. It's not scientific in any way. They seem 'softer than the duro states' but still roll the same. I'm going to try the cyber at dorney again on all purples this time ( i will have run 10k the day b4 so its not areal fair test) also, mine are pure pushers. not even slightly broken in. I do hownver have aset on my slalom and they have lost their sheen.... on an aside. I'm also skating them just because of NZ. I was there for most of the testing, call adam a really close friend. totally not scientific, but its what matters to me ( this wouldnt be the case if the wheels were shit - they aren't) xxx |
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| pavedwave |
okay since this "science" thing will apparently continue to live a long long life, i'm going to add some random thoughts... because its friday.
1. i dislike terms like "BigZig Killer" - that is marketing crap 2. i believe chris chaput is a genius and his longwinded rants just so happen to tick some people off - so when Otangs were released there was a lot of vibe about supporting a product that would finally "shut him down" 3. i dislike when people buy products only because they dislike chaput 4. i like new shiny things, like new shiny Otangs, just like anyone else, and I'm sure they are great wheels, though I still have not tried them, it doesn't mean it's because I think they suck -- its because I support a family and i'm not a fricking Warren Buffet 5. i do not dislike Loaded 6. superior performance is often a reason that people will purchase one product over another, regardless of whether that person will actually appreciate let alone tangibly benefit from the performance advantage it provides 7. i dislike hype claims made about superior performance 8. when superior performance (i.e, speed differences) are claimed, then science is the only way to prove it. hint: it starts with tape switches or a stopwatch. 9. silverfish is full of impressionable 13-year olds who tell their parents what to buy them 10. seismic blackops are a completely underrated wheel and only because Gesmer is a chill guy who hasn't blown massive coin on the marketing game 11. it is very cool to be a non-scientific, chill surf dude like Laird Hamilton or Jason Mitchell, everybody likes that because you don't care about the details brah, and you don't blog, you just ride brah! you just happen to be the best in the world riding the most highly advanced scientifically engineered stuff 12. it is very cool to be a geeky scientific nerdy dude like chris chaput, not everybody likes you but most people respect what you do because you care about details that nobody else takes the time for themselves 13. sometimes i take time to compose my thoughts. this is not one of those times. 14. our planet's going to get hit by a big asteroid some day so get out and enjoy the sun on whatever the #@$#@$ wheels you want ... 99. for approximately 97.734% of the skateboarding world who aren't actually standing on podiums: bigzigs = otangs = blackops. the end. |
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| model.citizen |
never tried them myself, but i'm not keen at all on anything from Loaded simply due to their unrealistic prices.
i mean, come on, they retail complete Dervishes here for $700 , or a deck for $400 , or o'tangs for $170 (STRs, Avilas, BlackOps, etc all available here for < $100).
although i do own their sliding gloves...but again what a price at $90. what the hell is so special about Loaded cack that pushes up the prices to ridiculous levels? (well, outside of our rubbish exchange rate at the moment) |
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| blake |
those prices seem a little crazy? are you sure? and i dont like o-tangs for either DH or pumping. they slide to much and they dotn last very long especailly when you are pumping them. ZIGS FTW. Best wheels ever i love them for anything and everything. and with all the different duros you can find something for your every desire. Bigzigs/zigzags=LOVE<3 | ||||
| model.citizen |
yep, that's the state of things when you live down in the arse-end of the world. shipping anything down here costs an arm and a leg. a set of Khiros for one truck costs $10. Bones Reds set you back $40. even a (pro) street popsicle is $120-$150 for the deck.
and the exchange rate doesn't help, since our dollar devalued any new stock coming in has been inflated by around 40%. a Dervish complete used to set you back $500 until around Xmas. luckily i managed to buy what i wanted/needed while our dollar was strong. not complaining tho, them's the breaks. i guess we have other benefits down here that $$ can't buy.
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| angelo_pb |
The options menu for the Mermaid complete by stoked is pretty impressive.
http://www.stokedskateboards.com/roemeco.html Interestingly, the 75mm 83a tangs are the default wheel. You can go less expensive or more expensive. I think this is smart on their part, as its an all-around great wheel for LDP for speed and grip. More importantly, it doesn't require sooth pavement to function. I also though it is interesting that the menu lets you choose less expensive wheels. Usually, the menu options on board builders just go more expensive. I recently learned the hard way that more expensive wheels does not always mean better wheels. The sheer number of options is so impressive. I think the bushings code scheme is a helpful reference by itself. The remaining default components seem equally well thought out. Kudos to Stoked. At least i can direct people to a store that sells a turn key LDP board ready to roll without requiring too much research on their part. It also seems to suggest that the subtle changes in 2009 are to the Mermaid's width. Did they make them wider up front? |
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| petary791 |
I heard they go faster when they heat up.
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| angelo_pb |
Happy Uerthane
Black Ops Urethane Retro Urethane I don't think i could have a serious discussion about any of them while keeping a straight face. But Seismic's "Black Ops" does sound the best. |
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| blake |
i say nothing beats the Retro urethane is the best all around kind. | ||||
| LDPanda |
As far as names go, i like earthwing's purethane (especially if you pronounce it pure Uh thane) and it may be appropriately named as ive heard its nearly air bubble free. But id have to agree with blake, i like the retro thane the best of everything ive tried. Havent spent much time on black ops yet tho. Tried otangs, didnt like em. The old seismic thane is ok, kind of middle of the road imo. Retro seems to grip really well in the lower duros and respond really well in the higher duros. | ||||
| Pureadrenalin |
When you guys say earthwing's purethane are you guys referring to the obombers. If so I cant find them any where locally. | ||||
| petary791 |
Yep, Purethane refers to Road Rages, Smokers, and Obombers. |
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