Need help tuning up pumping setup

BoseHeadphones · Need help tuning up pumping setup

I've decided to get back into longboarding and more than anything else LDP. My new setup just doesn't pump as well as my hyper carve used to, I wanted some feedback on why--I'm going to throw 100$ at my setup to make it work if I have to.

Current Setup:
Rayne Timeline (26" wheelbase)
Bennett 5.0 front (One soft khiro wedge)
RTS Rear 139mm (One soft khiro dewedge)
Lemon zigzags (83a/70mm)

Previous Setup
Gravity Hyper Carve (47", don't remember the wheelbase)
Carver CX front and back (with 1" of risers to avoid wheelbite)
Gumballs (75a/76mm)

My hyper carve had some serious pump, enough that I could get away with all those risers since I rarely had to push. Now, I can barely maintain 10 mph on the street in front of my house, where the HC could push 20. I just wanted to know what I can do to my Timeline to get the most pump out of it. For the record though, I'm fairly certain the Lemon zigs are too hard for around here, my streets are pretty terrible.

I've been looking at new wheels, and a dedicated LDP deck, but mostly want to see if I can get this one pumping alright.

camel

If you want to throw cash at the setup, here is an idea or two:

Khiro Rail Wedge Riser Set
Bennett 6.0
Khiro 1/4" Shock Risers (Rear)
3" Hardware

Adjust your wedge, that will create more front power and less rear loss. 17-19º wedge in front, 10-15º dewedge in the rear. Swap your front truck with the Bennett 6.0. This is a "high gear" truck. Better on flat ground. It will be a struggle to do uphill stretches, but on the flats, it hauls ass. Use the shock risers (stack 2 together for 1/2" total) to compensate for the height difference between front and rear trucks. Cut off the new hardware to match your new setup cleanly. (Cutoff disc on a dremel.)

From Stokedskateboards.com (my buddies that rock!)

1 Bennett Vector Truck 6.0" Black
$22.00
1 Khiro Truss Hardware, Various Sizes
* Length : 3 Inch
$3.49
1 Khiro Angled Wedge Riser Kit
$14.95
1 Khiro 1/4"Shock Pad Small 2 Risers
$2.99
Subtotal: $43.43
Total: $43.43

As to why it doesn't pump as well as it used to? Not sure. Maybe it's a matter of learning a different style of pumping. I know that my Dervish pumps way different than my Roe. If I tried to pump my Roe like my Dervish, it wouldn't go anywhere. Try standing in a forward stance, rear foot at the middle of the board, front foot over the front truck bolts. Rock back and forth in a body wave type motion and see what happens. Please don't think that I am patronizing you if you already know this stuff. I have no idea what your skill level is. I know that I do 5 miles daily and have been refining my setups for a year specifically on LDP flat track work for exercise.

C

stocago

Yeah, those two decks probably pump much differently, especially with the different style trucks and wedging. The wheelbase difference also would effect your top speed since the Timeline is a considerably shorter. As you suspect, the Lemons may not be smooth enough for your road surfaces, so you could consider a softer duro and perhaps a larger 75mm diameter, especially if you plan to get a dedicated LDP deck down the road.

BoseHeadphones

Thanks for the suggestions, something I should clarify is that I'm not getting very much pumping power period, it's not the inability to go fast that's getting to me, but the fact that I have trouble maintaining speed, even at slow speeds.

My experience is pretty limited, but I know from dropping my carver cx on a 36" board I got much more acceleration on the low end. Here, I don't get much power at any speed--and have to work really hard to keep 10 mph on flats.

I would be fine with going 10 mph tops, but the amount of effort is what's getting to me.

I'll definitely be trying more wedging, I've got an extra khiro soft riser for starters and will be double-wedging the front.

stocago

Adding that second riser in front is a good place to start. You didn't mention bushings, but hopefully you're not using the stock Bennetts. Softer bushings are crucial in front. Does your Timeline have a stiff or mushy flex?

BoseHeadphones

I've replaced the stock with a couple of beefy clear radikal bushings, which seem to be working alright so far. The timeline is a nice board, very flexy but with good rebound. I wouldn't call it stiff or mushy, more like lively. I don't feel like I'm losing any energy because of the flex at least.

I've been considering either 80a orangatang In Heats or some Purple Skunk Avilas (72a) for replacing the zigzags, if anyone with experience with either of those could chime in it'd be much appreciated! (Note: roads here are terrible)

jdnorthrup

Hey Bose,

I've been tweaking three boards over the past year. I learned on a 46" bamboo pintail. no camber -- flat nose to tail, with a w-shaped cross section concave. It's a fairly stiff board for that length. Gullwing Chargers "180mm" with 15 degree wedge front, 10 degree dewedge rear. Learned to pump on this one, kind of similar to your Gravity in the big scheme of things. Soft 74a 70mm Sector 9 wheels on this one.

So my girlfriend has a Loaded Pintail. I've tried again and again to pump on it, and it's much harder to a) gain speed and b) keep speed up. Currently it's got a pair of Randall - RII 150s with the standard 15/10 wedge setup. Khiro orange barrels on the front, stock light Randall bushings on the rear. In that situation I feel the spring of the flex III board is way too much for me. I'm 6'5", 175 lbs. Oh, Grippins 81a 70mm.

Recently, I've set up a third deck. I was looking at getting a Rayne Timeline as a "mid" distance pumping board, but instead went with a Bustin Spliff. It's got a 12 degree wedge built into the nose. Running Seismics 45 front, 30 rear, 133 mm wide. I tried wedging / dewedging and found all the combos I tried actually didn't improve things. Running a set of 73mm 80a Seismics Speed Vents and I'm in absolute love with these wheels.

From what I've read about the Rayne Timeline, it's supposed to be an easy board to get the "feel" of pumping on, but I imagine the flex might actually make it hard to keep up a good clip. To me the Timeline really seems a lot like a refined/different take on the same concept as the Loaded Pintail. On that kind of board I find you really have to work the bounce/flex into your pumping style, and you get a fun mid-speed clip going, but not really much fast or slow pumping.

That said, one way you *can* get some faster pump in is to spread your feet as far forward and back as you can, and work at rotating the front and back away from each other to "torque" the faster pumps.

For slower speeds, try to put your front foot as far forward on the board as you can, but not on the narrow part where the trucks mount -- you won't get enough leverage side to side. Having a really wedged front with extremely loose and turny bushings makes these slow acceleration pumps possible. I tend to do lots of tic-tac fast back and forth pumps for this, with my rear foot at least 1/3 the distance from the rear truck to the front truck. Gives you more leverage over the front truck, and a bit of a torque arm to push the rear truck around.

I'm not sure I agree with the Bennett 6.0" -- that might be a bit wide for your board for slower speeds. But if you're mainly interested in increasing your top end speed, and don't mind kicking a bit to start up to speed, then yes, the wider axle makes sense. Rereading your posts, it seems that top end speed with ease is your concern, so yeah, maybe a wider truck makes a lot of sense. Finding the right foot position can really help for high end clips too, but I guess that's obvious.

If you're in the market for wheels, I do recommend the Seismics 73mm speed vent 80a wheels for rougher pavement -- I can barely feel some stuff that used to be a bit sketchy on my 70mm 74a S9 wheels. And as JP's said before -- they're FAST.

OK, ramble out...
-jd

camel

I have some of the Grape Tangs. (In Heat 83a.) They are absolutely great! They are extremely reboundy when pumping. They just have a great overall feel. If you are on rough pavement, I would stick to the oranges. Where I am it is relatively smooth.

My assessment: Good purchase, worth the money.

C

BoseHeadphones

Thanks for all the suggestions, esp. jd and camel. I think you've mostly nailed it in that there's been a technique gap i've been having.

With the hypercarve + carvers, most of the pumping power was generated by applying torque to the board, and this worked at any speed. With the timeline + benett, I noticed on the low end that bouncing back and forth was less energy and got about the same acceleration as the torque technique i was used to. And then at faster speeds using more of a torque technique is almost a necessity for me, bouncing at those speeds is way too hard to control.

One thing that's going to take some getting used to is the degree of weighting and unweighting I have to do--might wait for my wheels (in the mail!). I've had a couple of unpleasant and unexpected slides so far.