Mermaid Stoke

Nicholas Jackson · Mermaid Stoke

Hi,

I have just been out for my first ride on my Mermaid and wanted to share a little stoke with you all.

Wow, I'm quite speechless at how good and how much fun this board is. I got up this morning with no stoke about the mermaid (not sure why) I had convinced myself that I much prefer pushing and that pumping was not for me.

Well I'm a fool, I had to tweak the board a little from the initial setup yesterday, having to add a couple of riser pads to the Khiro angle and 15 degree wedge on the front. It seems like Indy 139s are a little lower than Bennetts and with the 75mm tangs i was suffering serious wheel bite.

Christmas chores done, I decided to take her out for a spin. At first I wasn't feeling it, I could pump a little but nothing worth the effort. Now this is probably due to technique, I have never ridden a pumper before and only experimented with my Dervish. As the ride progressed I worked on my technique finally being able to accelerate effectively and even climb small inclines.

By the end of the ride I was flying this board really responds to the effort you put into it. I'm amazed at the speeds you can reach, I'm more amazed at how its possible to ride without pushing, a revelation I feel.

The board is just beautiful in every sense, not only is it seriously comfortable for pumping but it carves sweet too, screw Christmas I can't wait for light to go for a ride Smile

Merry Christmas everyone and a special thank you to Gareth and everyone who helped me tweak this thing.

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Nicholas Jackson

Hi,

I'm getting the Mermaid a little more tuned now since acquiring a Skennett front truck. Originally I was running two Indy 139s but this was never going to be ideal. Not being able to get a bennett 4.3 in a single anytime soon in the UK I decided to spend the extra cash and get the Skennet which as always arrived from Octane sport quickly.

I had been riding the Mermaid with good success using the two Indys she pumped quite well but it always felt that you really had to put in allot of effort to roll along. The Skennett however seems to require much less effort to move at speed and has much better acceleration to the Indy. Its quite strange but technique wise i find the Skennett much less forgiving than the Indy, you really have to flow with it. With the Indy you just force it to do what you want and if you mess up there is nothing much lost.

I rode a loop near my house about 3 mile long and I have recorded the trip with my GPS both with the Skennett and with the Indy front truck. Conditions have been very similar both days and I am happy to say that the Skennett is 0.7mph faster and feels much more efficient. The loop is far from flat always either up or down and most of it is crappy british pavement, either badly maintained big slabs or the nice new small paving slabs which i hate more than the big stuff as it feels like you have to constantly accelerate to combat the cracks slowing you down.

GPS track with Skennett front Indy rear (Ignore altitude its gone crazy)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/1655201

GPS track with both Indy
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/1608503

I think the front is pretty dialed now I am happy with the 4.3 a speed of 10mph is about the average for pumping on the not so bad stuff. More speed would be nice but I feel i need the acceleration for the hills and the bad pavement.

The rear however is another issue, it just feels wrong. I can't quite put my finger on it but I am running an Indy 139 with Bones black bottom and yellow top, 10 degree wedge + khiro soft riser. I think i have the truck too tight with the indy front I found a really tight rear help to drive more power, with the Skennett front I am not so sure my back foot never felt comfortable so tomorrow I am going to play with different bushing or maybe just loosen the rear a little to give it a bit of spring.

Nic

Barry

How do Nicholas Wink

Happy new year and mermaid stoke to you Wink

Nice set up; but I think you should loose some of your rear de-wedge, your rear truck must run deader than a dead thing Very Happy

Try just using the soft angled riser in the back with just enough flat risers to 1: keep the deck level'ish and 2: stop any rear wheel rub. maybe just a couple of degrees of extra wedged rails may help if you find the soft angle too carvy.
I don't know what bushings you have in the rear but try some Red or Yellow Khiro Barrels or a mix of Red and Yellow.

Here is a picture of my walk about rear. the only thing I have ever changed to this set up is the wheel duro.
I have an RTS 129 with a quarter inch hard flat rubber riser, one soft 80a duro angled wedge and I think 3 degrees rails which make a total of 10 degrees de-wedge, with 77mm wheels this set up for me on this board is sweet.

If the photo does not show here is the link to it
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Kno...lkabout230808#5238476173670839026

Happy pumping.
take care,
Barry Wink

Nicholas Jackson

Thanks Barry,

I will give this ago this evening and test it out tomorrow, I was not sure how dead to run the rear I think I got a little carried away Smile

I think i was under the mistaken impression that the rear tuck should just about be locked to get any pump out of it but ahem I think this was a little wrong Smile

I don't have any khiros so I will give it a try with some bones mediums I like these bushings as they have great snap and they are roughly in between the duro of the khiros.

Many thanks and Happy New Year,

Nic

Nicholas Jackson

Thanks again Barry, I have just made the changes to my board with you recommended settings and she accelerates much better and is much nicer to ride.

I think I need to change the front also as I forgot to factor in the angle of the soft khiro when adding the rails by my calculation that means I am running 22degrees wedge on the front! I will swap the front rail for a 10 degree tomorrow which will give me the optimum of 17degrees.

I kind of understand the front truck needing to be turney hence the wedge but I'm not sure I understand the rear what part does the rear add to pumping performance?

Many thanks
Nic

Barry

How Do Nic Wink

Glad that worked for you, as for the front; I run mine at 22 degrees with a Bennett vector 5.0 as I find it easier to pump; though you loose a little top end but I am not too bothered with top end speed I just want to enjoy going somewhere with minimum effort and a good work out at the end of the day.

If you want fast top end and don't mind the extra effort on hills go with the 17*, if you want a long distance all day long minimum effort and don't mind a lower top end speed then stick with the 22*

As for the rear, the less turning you have on your rear truck seems to put all the pumping power into the front leg and front truck, you tend to go staighter and maybe faster but it just feels wrong; like your back leg and the rear of the board are just along for the ride.
Having a small amount of turning in the rear gives a more turny feel to the back truck and seems to make the back leg join in with the pumping experience more, you tend to make more arcing carvy pumps which may or may not add to the momentum of the pump, and it just feels right, how much turn you have in the rear truck is I guess a matter of preference.

the above statements are just my own thoughts on this and from experimenting with my Namaste and Om decks and the truck I built for the rear of them. with everything from zero turn in the rear and up to what feels the same as the set up I use on my Walkabout I found that I eventually prefered the more carvy feel in the rear and a totally dead rear truck dit not make me feel good about riding after a few miles.
James may be able to give you more info on the effects of the various ammount of de-wedging on the rear truck.
I feel the rear truck tends to get a little left behind (no pun intended) in the whole scheme of things.
I have bought some Seismics stable truks to try on the rear so my views may change again after using them.
everyone who has tried them seems to be rating them.

I hope this helps a little.
Oh another thing that may or maynot affect your wedging/ de-wedging is the amount of camber and flex you have in your board as well.

Take care,
Barry Wink

Nicholas Jackson

Thanks Barry,

That's a usefull explanation.

Nic

LovethePump

Nicholas Jackson

Yes the amount of front wedge affects the straight line speed but I think you have to compromise depending on the terrain you ride. Generally I am accelerating all the time due to bad pavements and road junctions so I ride a Skennett which is based on a 4.3 Bennett wedged with 22 degrees.

I find with this set-up I can accelerate from almost standing still If I want to and my cruising speed is around 11mph which is OK.

Rear truck I ride an Indy (stage 10) 129 wedged de-wedged with about 10 degrees (soft khiro riser and 3 degree khiro rail). Its lovely and stable lets me pump well and also if I want to bust some carves its quite happy with that as well.

I have been waiting for a Seismic 130 stable turn which I intend to set up with dark green springs for about 4 months now (mistakes of trying to shop with a local skateshop). I think with this wedged with either a 7 degree khiro or even flat on the deck the board is going to be sweet.

I can not get enough of this setup the Skennett is lovely and even though my quiver is ever expanding the mermaid is the board I go for first every time.

Nic

pavedwave

Great review Nic, good to see she's working out. And once again some great tech explanations Barry!

I'm finding the 'deadness' of the rear truck is always a balance between those two elements -- dewedging, and the bushing/spring duro.

You can have

and you might come to some really similar conclusions.

Personally I prefer the feel of moderate dewedging and pretty stiff springs, for a straight-ahead, all out blasting pump machine (my Roe, the daily commuter) and a looser set of springs/bushings on a board that I'm just riding a couple miles to the store and maybe carving up a hill with on the way.

jat.

James,
I'm lacking a rear truck to couple up with a Bennett 5.0 and will most likely be ordering a seismic just to try them out. I weight right around 155lbs and can't make up my mind what springs would be stiff enough and which would be overkill.

Thus far I'm guessing that purple or dark green would be the way to go.

I'm sorry for pulling this topic even more off topic. I just found a relevant pattern here Smile

pavedwave

Well I'd sorta lean toward the Medium greens. I'm actually going to be trying out some reds in the rear truck tomorrow "Light" which is yet another step softer than the greens, I'll let you know how that goes.

jat.

Wow, you're a pistol! Swift answer and a cliff hanger!
Looking forward to hear what you have to say.

Ian the Groove Worshipper

One thing I've noticed is that the more you dewedge the rear truck, the softer the bushings or springs feel. On a Seismic, it's easy to see why, for the more you dewedge the truck, the more perpindicular to the ground/deck the spring becomes. From a leverage point of view, the closer the angle between the spring and the deck/ground is to 90 degrees, the less amount of force it takes to compress it. I've found this change in feel to be rather noticeable.

In other words, if I'm running my Seismic with lots of dewedging for maximum efficiency, I like the Green Springs, and if I'm running the Seismic with very little dewedging for a more carvy feel, I like the softer Red Springs. The return to center is roughly equal for the change in dewedging actually has that much of an effect on spring efficacy.

On related note, I've been pondering the effect riser height has on bushing rebound. If you think of an extreme case, such as using one foot of riser, imagine how tippy your board would become, and how much harder the bushings would have to work to return the board to center. It stands to reason that increased riser height has a VERY detrimental effect on the rebound/return to center, and puts FAR more demand onto the bushings. I conclude that the ideal setup would have the absolute minimum of riser height, which would in turn result in increased rebound/return to center. This would require some design improvements from the deck makers so that wheelbite can be mitigated. Or perhaps, if the surface is good, it may actually be more beneficial to run smaller wheels so that the riser height can be lowered, for the increased efficacy of the bushings may outweigh the upside of running 75-77mm wheels on good surfaces.

pavedwave

I tried a couple rear tweaks today -

Replaced my Med Green springs with Light Red on the 130mm hangar - it instantly felt like something I'd want to shred and carve a hill with, but for my 165lbs, it lost a good amount of forward drive for flatland pumping. (similar to what Ian just mentioned) It still worked for flatland, but was a looser, carvier pump, not the "fast forward" more powerful pump I've gotten accustomed to.

2nd thing, I wanted a 'surfy' rear narrower than the front, so tried the 105mm hangar going back to Med Green springs. Jury is still out on that one. It added a lot more agility when I wanted to turn sharp or pump quick, but it seemed to sacrifice some top-end momentum, taking out some of the big, sweeping, driving pumps due to the somewhat unorthodox config.

jat.

I got my mermaid on Saturday and have been so stoked about posting some pictures, but since I just moved in with some buddies into a new house internet is rarity as we shamefully boosting from the neighbours wireless. But she's a beauty! The only regrets I have was not including griptape! Gosh darn it!

The snow and polar bears are no longer a threat in this northern realm so I'm sure I'll get to test her out this week. Can not at all wait!

Ian the Groove Worshipper

After spending the last 8 days in Colombia hoping that my neighbor would grab the Mermaid from my porch, I arrived home last night to indeed find my long awaited cargo safe.

This evening I put it together with 79a 77mm SpeedVents, a Bennett 5.0 with the Sk8kings custom bushing set, 15 degrees wedging, Seismic 130 with green springs, 7 degrees of dewedging, longest WB, and rear wheels flipped making it more like a 105 rear hangar.

It was almost dark, but I manged to drive to a nicely paved spot of the Pinellas Trail and get a solid 30m ride in.

It was AMAZING! I instantly connected with the board. The hype is true. All I can say is the it's all about the flex. Garrett has got the flex NAILED. This board is so lively, and so comfortable to ride. I am very happy.

I was concerned that the stiff flex would be too stiff, but found that not to be the case at all. The Loaded comparison made by Stocago really resonates with me. That said, I'm 200 pounds and would probably really enjoy a Medium, though it would most likely be at the expense of a degree of efficiency for I'm sure that would be borderline floppy for my weight. Tonight I was thinking it would be cool to actually have one of each.

I'll post photos within a day or so.

I have an 110mm Airflow on the way, along with a RTX 106, and may also try my Carver CX, so I'll be experimenting with trucks, wedging and wheelbase until I come onto the perfect setup.

I'll post more riding impressions once I've had more time with the board.

All I can say is that I'm STOKED!!!

LDPanda

Wow, sounds like a great setup. Id be willing to bet you stick with the airflow forever once it comes. Out of curiosity, why did you flip the rear wheels? Ive flipped my front before, and both front and rear, but never rear by itself. I imagine it would be a surfier ride?

Ian the Groove Worshipper

I'm not sure if the flipped SpeedVents are more surfey than the wider track when they are mounted normally. Then make it more like a 105 hangar than a 130. But they do seem more precise, like a scalpel. But when they break free, they are less predictable. I'm not sure which way I like better.

Tonight I put on my Carver Cx set, with 5 degrees deweding on the rear truck. I can't wait to try it tomorrow...

bluebugbuster

Oh man... I got to stop checking this forum. All you guys talking about riding, and the weather gods just puked an inch of the fluffy white crap on top of cold and icy pavement.

How about that ldp game for the wii? Hows that coming?

pavedwave

LDPanda

The project is now " LDPii" and comes along very friendly. I work with engineers of a pair from Germany and we program at present fine motivities, which are included into the core and into the back muscles on that stupidly and regular pump positions with. We must collect and stop straight more data, beer, to drink those cursed Germans as much!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucEV7N0N9Pw

This is other co-operation I' m, which on, my research partner works, is represented in this video. She' very diverting s, but it' much fun been S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWZYmTS88DQ

Babelfish to the rescue (sort of)

Edit: Apparently I skate 'stupidly'lol, i think this means goofy Very Happy

and yes, she is VERY diverting, lol, i dont know how you get any work done.

Ian the Groove Worshipper

Here are photos of my new Mermaid with its current setup. I know the RTX isn't the truck of choice around here, but thus far it's been the most pleasing setup that I've tried. Maybe the narrowness of the 106 helps counteract the increased effort that others have mentioned as the shortcoming of the RTX, by quickening the slower initial turn. The only problem is that I'm getting hangar bite with my new 72a Avilas, due to their pronounced inner lip, and the OTangs are rubbing the hangar a bit, too, though less so. Only the 77mm Vents have been immune to hangar bite, due to their inner lip being so small. I suppose I'll have to look into trimming the inner lips of the Avilas. Any tips would be appreciated.

I've been experimenting with using way less wedging in front. I'm currently using 7 degrees and really digging it. I'm in Florida where it's flat so a slightly higher gear makes sense.

It's been amazing to me how much different the flex of the Mermaid feels with each different truck setup. Since my Mermaid is on the stiff side for my tastes, I've been confined to the longer WB, as well as confined to truck/bushing/wheel choices that make the board feel more flexy. The CX is also basically unusable for it makes the board too stiff being that the front axle is set a good 1.5-2 inches further back than using a Bennett or RTX. Today I was noticing how much different the flex of the board felt when using the 72a Avilas (slow yet deep flex/rebound) compared to the OTangs (quick, snappy, hard pop flex/rebound). The RTX and Airflow combo seems to make the flex work just right for my needs, and for the present moment is really making me feel so utterly grateful to be alive when I get into a well-connected groove.

randelpink03

Thats a lot of riser.

pavedwave

Ian, can you get risers that are thinner on one end? My buddy Pauliwog's even taken a thick 1" riser and sawed it diagonally in half to make two angled risers that are uber-thin on one end -- that way you get angle but you don't get as much height.

Curious to know your weight (sorry, you might have told me before) to go along with the stiff flex Mermaid impressions as well.

Great feedback and notes on the wheel-truck bite! I don't run into that myself with Avilas on those type of trucks, but you can indeed shave them down, just be sure you do it with lots of ventilation or all you'll be able to utter is "goony goo goo"

wafflesole

I'm looking at getting my hands on a mermaid. I weigh in at 14 and a half stone which puts me in the 200lb bracket. What flex do you think? i seem to be right on the boarder betweeen stiff and medium... do people prefer it stiffer?

jat.

Completely forgot to post mine!

It's a dream! The flex is awesome and I just keep going and going.

barefootboarder

That's a lovely picture!

camel

Ian the Groove Worshipper

jat.

camel

Thanks man! What is your name so I can give you credit for the pic?

jat.

Jacob Hansen. Let me know where to find it Wink

randelpink03

Hey everyone. I finally have dialed in my Roe Mermaid (medium flex) and just wanted to share the set-up with yall. By the way I am 185-190 lbs. and about 6'2".

I have a 'Skennet' front spaced out to roughly 108-110, and a standard Tracker RTS 129mm rear. I am running Otang 75mm 80a wheels with Bones swiss 6 bearings.

Bushing setup for the Skennet (bottom to top):
Small reflex cone shaved down not sure of the duro but its soft, followed by a 80a Otang barrel, truck, then the top barrel is a Venom standard pack 78a.

For wedging I have a Khiro soft wedge riser and then the 15* Khiro wedge risers.

Tracker set-up:
Bottom bushing is a Radikal not sure of duro, truck, finished with a Green superball barrel from Tracker.

Soft 1/8" riser, followed by a soft Khiro wedge riser, and then a 1/4" hard Khiro riser to finish it off.

This sucker pumps really well and has a surprising amount of stability at speed. Only have about 50 miles on this setup, so more reviews as the add up.

stocago

I've been digging my current Mermaid setup and just wanted to share a few pics. Ian the Grove Worshipper actually had the idea for me to try a Randal to add some stiffness to my flexy Mermaid. By shortening the wheelbase, now the deck has just the right snap . I've been very impressed with how this rear truck sticks, much better than my RT-S. It's not on par with the Seismic, but it's smooth and quiet.

Bennett 6.0 with 84a Grippins in front and Randal R-II 160 Downhill with 83a Obombers flipped in back

additional 7 degrees dewedging with Venom 93a barrel bottom and old Randal red top

11 degrees wedging with Randal DH black barrel bottom and Khiro white barrel top

randelpink03

Is that a 125 or 150 randal? It looks like you got it on the 35* plate too. I have been meaning to try my sk8kings 'skandal' as a rear. I bought it originally for slalom but didn't really dig it for cones.

RiPPer

pavedwave

Nice setups guys! Ah kin smell the urethane Wink

The Randal 125/150/160 is a great rear truck. My personal choice would probably be the 125, I know stocago's been shredding some seriously fast miles with the wider hangars which makes sense. I'm starting to think that hangar width number correlates directly to lung capacity...

stocago

The main reason I actually went with the 160 was financial. The 35 degree plate from Randal runs $14, but I was able to pick up the entire truck for $19.99 on sale at Stoked. Since I typically run a 6.0 in front, I thought it'd be compatible. I have been very pleased with this setup and I've been using Seismic Stable-Turns on all my LDP decks.

RiPPer

So how would you compare the randal to the seismic?

stocago

It's really hard to compare the two, since the Randal is a bushing truck. I've been running Seismic S-T rear trucks on my LDP decks since last summer. A couple of months ago I set up one of my decks with a Tracker RT-S just to compare. Although I enjoyed the smooth and quiet feel I just couldn't get it to grip enough, no matter how much I dewedged, or how hard the bushings were. Although I've only been riding the Randal setup for about a week, the traction is more than adequate. It's quite impressive actually. I'm not even using particularly grippy rear wheels and I'm getting all I need. To be fair, I have not tried the Tracker on the Mermaid, only on the Pulse and Slippery Skates LDP decks. I plan to test the Randal DH on my long wheelbase Pulse within the next couple of weeks and can report back.

Ian the Groove Worshipper

I've been really curious at how the Skandal performs as well, and super impressed by Stocago's Randal. One thing I didn't see mentioned is that he is running the rear wheels flipped, which makes the hangar roughly equal to a 150mm hangar with non-flipped wheels. I know Barry has a Skandal on one of his slalom setups, too, as well as RandalPink. You guys definitely need to bolt them up to your LDP decks and start a thread in the truck forum with your observations. My initial impressions are that the Randal gets quite a bit more traction than the RTS, and even rivals the Seismic in traction.

The one thing that needs to be considered with the Randal, or any reverse KP truck for that matter is that it puts the axle way closer to the center of the board, thus shortening your effective WB quite a bit and making your board noticeably stiffer. I have been on a "longer WB is better" kick which has prevented me from experimenting further with the Reverse KP trucks, yet I am pretty intrigued with the idea of getting a Cross Step (31.5 & 32.5" WB) to be able to experiment with some reverse KP trucks and have an effective WB of about the same as my Mermaid with the Bennett/Seismic on longest WB.

pavedwave

randalz (and gullwing chargers) iz all we used ta ride... i still dig 'em

seelie

so...I got the opportunity to buy a used Mermaid and I jumped at it. It's currently en route from the "Great North West." But, I didn't ask what the flex was on the board before I pulled the trigger...I'm an impulsive little bugger! How bad is this, I weigh 165 lbs and the flex is stiff? Recommended setups?

Thanks in advance.

seelie

LDPanda

I run a very stiff deck for my weight, i think a lot of it is a personal choice. I prefer a stiffer deck for stability on downhill and good top end speed. A flexier deck is a little more comfortable on rough terrain and maybe a little more efficient around the 8-12 mph range (just my opinion). If youre using a bennett up front i dont see that it should be a problem but using a virage or splitfire up front might be more difficult with a very stiff deck. Even so, the mermaid 'stiff' still has a ton of pop and shouldnt feel dead or inflexible under your weight.

Ian the Groove Worshipper

Seelie, you'll be pleased to find that even a Stiff Mermaid is pretty flexy, compared to many other boards.

You'll want to squeeze as much actual wheelbase (measured from axle to axle) as you can out of the board given your weight is quite light for a Stiff Mermaid.

I drilled an extra WB in my Mermaid, 1 inch in front of the front truck mounting position. This mimics the Pulse which comes with 2 front mounting options. It worked perfectly, and there is still plenty of real estate for the front foot. I must warn you though that drilling truck holes is not as easy as it looks so measure carefully so they come out evenly.

You'll also want to stay away from reverse kingpin trucks, the Carver CX, Airflows, or Splitfire trucks as they will shorten your actual wheelbase. You need all the WB you can get to squeeze flex out of that board. If you go with a Bennett and Seismic or Tracker setup, you'll have as much WB as possible.

It is amazing how much an inch of WB will add to the flex of this board. I think if you set it up with the custom drilled long WB, a Bennett and a Seismic, you'll have a very fast setup, with good flex too.

seelie

great response guys! the board is due in next week, I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

pavedwave

I'm pulling a couple quotes off another thread stocago just posted to, some more feedback on Mermaid flex. As noted before, I'm 165 and ride a Light, so my preference for max flex is pretty obvious.