Gear advice for beginners

LDPanda · Gear advice for beginners

I was bored and decided to write up my own personal gear selection advice page.
This is to help answer the “What (______) should I buy?” questions.
I’ve listed my own personal top three picks, in no particular order, as well as some basic features that are important for LDP.
The information below represents my opinion ONLY and is not intended to represent a consensus of LDP riders.
I would be happy to hear input from other experienced riders
and I reserve the right to edit this list at any time to reflect new findings and opinions.

Deck:
Top Three Picks:
Roe Mermaid
Subsonic Pulse
LBL Walkabout
Important Features:
37”-45” Long / 26”-31” Wheelbase
Some flex
Wide enough at nose

Front Truck:
Top Three Picks:
Bennett 4.3
Bennett 5.0
Virage Front
Important Features:
Narrow Hangar
Lots of turning ability
Good return to center

Rear Truck:
Top Three Picks:
Airflow 110
Tracker RT-S 129
Virage Rear
Important Features:
Very stable
Similar width to front truck
Good return to center

Wheels:
Top Three Picks:
BigZigs
Black Ops Speed Vents
Avilas
Important Features:
Grip
Rebound
Size: 70mm-80mm, Duro: 73a-83a

Bushings:
Top Three Picks:
Khiro
Venom
Abec11 Reflex
Important Features:
Softer in front
Harder in back
Snappy return to center

Some retailers that cater to LDP gear:
www.sk8kings.com
www.subsonicskateboards.com
www.stokedskateboards.com
www.longboardlarry.com
www.daddiesboardshop.com
www.milehighskates.com
www.octanesports.com

peppermint rhino

In addition, I think the following would be a good investment:

Kihro Rail kit

Kihro Soft wedges

1.5" - 2.5" pan head screws and nylon washers.

blake

thats a great list i agree completely with all of it i just think for the wheels you should put up what A or color you should get because you dont want some one to shell out 40 for big zigs and get like Oranges or something.

LDPanda

Thanks blake, i didnt want to get too specific as gear choices depend a lot on terrain and riding preferences, but i did change the 'important features' of wheels to include the sizes and duros that seem most appropriate to LDP.

Ian the Groove Worshipper

I think that Seismic Stable Turn 130 deserves to be a rear truck choice. A very sticky truck, in my opinion even more so than my Airflow, at a fraction of the price. I would advise any friend of mine not to shell out any cash on an RT-S for that money will be wasted very soon thereafter when they upgrade to something that doesn't drift with all but the grippiest wheels.

LDPanda

I get what youre saying, i really do, but ....

I dont like spings, plain and simple.

Theyre expensive to replace, require adjusting on long trips, and can go horribly horribly wrong when they fall apart. Plus, figuring out the right spring 'weight' for you can be a difficult and expensive process.

For example, this weekend i had my top bushing get chewed up and disappear out of my bennett on the trail. Rather than having to walk the seven miles home, i was able to walk 1 mile to the nearest skate shop (thanks motion!) and buy a bushing and continue on my journey. Had i been using seismics (or originals or RTR or C7 or ...) i would have had a much worse trip.

I like to keep things simple, especially on long journeys. Thats why i dislike precision axles, spherical bearings, and non-bushing trucks.

Its a good point to bring up and im glad you did, but this is my list and I personally would go for for an RT-S before a seismic any day of the week.

pavedwave

Seismic rear trucks perform insanely well in terms of forward motion and performance in general. When I started riding these again (my first years were 2001--2004, then got back on them in 2008) I felt like they were literally throwing me forward down the trail.

How many Seismic springs have you actually broken? I've never busted a Seismic truck or worn down the springs -- so that's zero replacement cost. I've seen pictures of and I know their baseplates *can* break in rare occasions, which would lead to an on-the-road repair, but these breaks are easy to avoid by not mounting them on soft risers. Another good thing about Seismic is their rebound isn't affected by mud and rain, whereas rain makes bushings squish around even more -- performance differs, dare I say "suffers" under those conditions.

Since this is a list of gear for beginners, I think they shouldn't be too misled by theory over trail-tested experience with gear on which we haven't yet put in the miles. Again this is LDP not "pump a few times around the parking lot" which is why slalom guys don't always make the best LDP testers. I think the list is more effective where we keep playing positive notes on the stuff that has worked for you.

LDPanda

True enough, i havent spent much time on seismics and so my opinion is under-informed. That being said, ive listed MY TOP THREE and i have spent enough time on all three of those trucks to recommend them. As i stated in the OP, this is not intended to replace the Gear Page or to represent a consensus or majority opinion of the community here, its just my list, take it or leave it. Furthermore, if you look at the 'Important Features' that ive noted, i think you will see that seismic stable turns fit nicely into those categories.

On the issue of performance in the rain, i dont have any problems with my eliminators squishing around but i have heard seveal horror stories of debris getting stuck in the springs of seismics, like pinecones and whatnot.

Anyway, its just my observations and suggestions. If JP and Ian endorse seismics im sure they perform admirably.

pavedwave

Several horror stories eh? I want names and numbers Wink

Replace the gear page? You mean that one I haven't updated in like over a year? Personally I like this thread -- good short synopsis all in one post.

Anyway... this is all just like, your opinion man

LDPanda

Ok, im defeated. I have been looking all around but i cant find the post where someone was happy that they had finally gotten thru an entire session without having to check for debris stuck in their springs. Maybe it was here, maybe it was the 'fish, maybe it was all in my head.

Seismic > Panda

Im still not putting 'em in my top three. Theyre kinda noisy and i dont like them aesthetically, there.

[/end]

pavedwave

Dude, really I have no desire to see seismic rear trucks in your top 3 or top 10 list of great trucks. Like you said from the beginning they're your opinions. No need to feel 'defeated', feel free to state your opinion on what works.

When I posted my stuff years ago about CarverCX's, it's what worked for me at the time, and with such an oddball truck I heard endless crap from the traditional school. I didn't talk their stuff down, just talked mine up because it was working and I was flying on those things. And it's still the truck that Munson got his fastest Cyber Mile on of all time. (Incidentally, our own Stocago here just posted a 2nd place Cyber Mile of 3:42!!!!) But a lot has changed for me style-wise and gear-wise over the last half decade and most others will probably find just the same discovery when they look back a few years.

One thing I've really learned about things like the "gear" page and reactions to it...we all have a strong desire to hear what works well and why, more than the flip side.

Belegnole

Hey Panda!

I got one for you....Seeing how you have come up with this list I'm going to ask you to come up with one build. Let's call it the Panda Special..

So, pound for pound, dollar for dollar what would you choose if you were to make just one board for a beginner. Remember the most cost effective setup without knowing anything about the rider. Assume that you would be able to adjust bushings and deck flex when the rider shows up....

LDPanda

All right, I accept your challenge!

Im going to assume the rider has a reasonable but not extravagant budget and wants a setup that will last for quite some time but may not be the last LDP board they buy.

Roe Mermaid (appropriate flex for weight)
Bennett 4.3
Airflow 110
BigZig Limes (80a)
Venom Eliminators in the rear
Khiros in the front

Offhand i think this setup comes in just under $400 for the complete.

If you wanted to save some money, i think the best way to do that would be to replace the airflow with either an RT-S 106 (saves about $100) or a ..................... Seismic 105 stable turn (saves about $80).

A lot of people prefer the Bennett 5.0 paired with a RT-S 129 or Seismic 130 (or the same airflow 110 spaced out to 130). I suppose thats a matter of personal preference. Ive tried all three sizes of Bennetts and I like the 4.3 the best.

Another place to save some money might be the deck. I believe both the LBL and Subsonic decks could be made cheaper than the $180 that stoked is asking for the mermaid. I chose the mermaid becuase i think its flex is best for a beginner.

Belegnole

Thanks
It is always nice to see others opinions on equipment. With the rate of change in the sport the opinion can change often so I often ask what peoples favorites are now. For a beginner a reasonably priced setup can make or break getting into LDP. The Mermaid has become the most expensive deck after the stoked price hike with the Pulse coming in at $140 minus tape and the Walkabout at $140. Like you said trucks are a place where one can save a bit of cash with the VirageLDP running $325 a set of Bennet/Seismic running near $60 you can save some real cash here. That savings of $305 is enough to get all the extra parts and more to build a deck, buy safety gear and maybe dinner. While the Virage may be great there may not be enough of a difference in them and a beginners skills to warrant the cost.

LDPanda

I wouldnt call virages an 'entry-level' truck the same way i wouldnt call radikals an 'entry-level' slalom truck. BUT some people can afford the best of the best on their first deck and i dont see any reason they shouldnt. The only reason I put airflow on this setup rather than the virage rear is that i live in the US and its easier and faster for me to get an airflow. I wouldnt really suggest a virage front to a beginner, not only becuase of the price but becuase the dive of the bennett makes learning to pump easier than the smoother flow of the virage (imho).

Belegnole

I would agree. I was just thinking like....well, I and some others have a tendency to before being reined in. You know what's the best, I want that! When in reality the best can be very subjective. Best for you? for me?....top that off with the price difference between various bests and you have my last post....

pavedwave

Another thing to factor in price- and effort-wise is what the trucks really cost when you want it set up right. This means the $18 Khiro wedge kit risers that add angle to the Bennett without adding extra height, and the extra long hardware especially for the "fat" end of the front truck. And with all these trucks remember to factor the cost of the replacement Khiro/Venom bushings. Another Bennett optional, though it looks to be increasingly required, is replacing the kingpin -- factor in some time and effort and JB-weld type solution there, until Bennett figures out how they want to fix this. Over the years I've seen the learning curve many noobs go through to set something up to ride well straight out of the box, and sometimes they'll just splurge and get what they can slap together fast to get out on the road.

One will still come out ahead financially with the Bennett, and I still love the feel of that truk, so I'm not passing any "judgement" one way or the other. Just explaining what I've experienced and another element to factor in for those getting set up the first time. The Virage is a kind of "slap it on and go" setup -- but with a little caveat, I am already planning to do a write-up (with pictures) on the extra planning that is necessary once you start doing your first tweaking and wheel changes with that truck...

Ian the Groove Worshipper

Here is my budget friendly beginner LDP setup:

Fibreflex 44" w/ kicktail (comes w/grip) $70
Bennett 5.0 $28
Seismic 130 $32
72a Avilas from Purple Skunk $45
VXB bearings from Ebay $5
2 packs of Khiro Bushings (one white, one orange) $7
Seismic Springs $9
3" hardware $5
2 angled Khiro shock pads $4.50
1 hard angled Khiro riser $2.25
1 Khiro spacers $5
2 soft flat Khiro risers $2.5

Total $215.25

Comments:

If you live where it's hilly, you may opt in favor of a Bennett 4.3.

After a month or so of riding, you can buy a Grade 8 kingpin at your local bolt supplier for less than a dollar, and change the kingpin, to be safe.

If you are heavier, you'll opt for green Seismic springs. If you are lighter you can go with the red Seismic springs. Front truck uses the PW Bennett bushing recommendations. I recommend supergluing the bottom cone to the barrel for better rebound.

Front truck uses 2 soft Khiro wedges for 14 degrees.

Back truck uses one hard wedge for 4 degrees dewedge. Plus a soft riser or two to make the deck height match, and ensure no wheelbite up front.

I chose 3 inch hardware. You can cut it to length with a hacksaw or dremel. This is the cheapest way to go.

The soft Avilas are a good bargain, and you'll love having them. They may be a little slower over nice surfaces, but if you're a beginner you shouldn't be worried about speed yet. If you like LDP you'll end up buying lots of wheels, trust me, and you can buy some harder ones next time around. I considered 78a Bennett Gators for being a little easier to pump for a beginner, but feel the Avilas would be more useful over time if one sticks with the sport.

I like Daddiesboardshop and sk8kings. Daddies offers free shipping and both of these suppliers ship immediately, which I always appreciate.

This is my attempt to put together a cheap board, which at the same time leaves you with many quality components that you'll be able to use for a long time if you choose to upgrade your deck to a dedicated LDP.

I think that covers all the parts a beginner would need.

LDPanda

That looks like an awesome setup! thanks for putting that together with the prices, nice work. I just have a few comments.

Buying through ebay, even from a reliable seller like VXB, can be a pain. You could buy a combo bearing/wheel deal from purple skunk for $55, a few dollars more to avoid the headache of ebay.

Ive never liked the feel of two soft angled risers in the front. I know thats what sk8kings ships their completes with and i tried in on my axe and didnt like it at alll. I think the rail wedging kit is well worth the money for any level of rider.

Ive never ridden a fiberflex so i know nothing about its flex. That being said, the lbl, subsonic, and roe all have multiple flexes to choose from to customize to the rider's weight.

pavedwave

I like that advice as well Ian. I think those prices might be leaving out the cost of shipping though, or just keeping it optimistic. Very Happy

You can always save on shipping by trying to buy more stuff from one place.

You might also add another set or two of harder Khiro bushings for the rear truck, something in the red--yellow range. One thing about minimizing cost is getting a few "extras" up front that don't incur a brand new shipping cost.

The hard angled risers do make a difference even for a noob, not only for the responsiveness of having less squish, but also on the point of ride height, which can be discouraging for new guys with underdeveloped quad muscles... since I keep seeing this "extreme height" of LDP boards thing bantied about the Fish recently, I keep trying to coach people that setting up the sharply angled risers like those from the Khiro wedge kit, adds just the right angle without adding unnecessary height. So I do agree on adding the cost there and getting significant value right away. But the spirit of your list is still intact, it's not to get everything perfect out of the box, and for sure the angled wedge pads will work in a pinch.

The Fibreflex really is one of the best flexes on the high-production, low cost end boards. I've only had limited ride time on one however so I'm not exactly sure what range of weight rider it's flex would suit best, assuming a range of individual preferences as well. I think it was about a Medium on the Roe flex scale.

Ian the Groove Worshipper

Glad you liked the setup, JP! I was thinking afterwards that really only a few things would need to be changed if it were to be a "money is no object" setup.

I think all that I would change is to add the following items:
Khiro wedge kit (I would still get the angled risers, they are nice to have)
Khiro bushing kit
Biltin bearings (takes place of spacers and bearings)
Add 100 bucks for a Mermaid (or any other boutique LDP deck if you are can wait)

Other optionals:
Dremel $100 to cut kingpins and truck mounting bolts, smooth out truck hangers, and other fun projects
Cordless drill with 3/8 deep well socket - the best way to change trucks
I could go on and on

You are right that I did not add the cost of shipping! I wanted to, to make it truly a legit price, but that was too much work. One thing that surprised me is how hard it was to put together a cheap setup. I know that Stoked is working on selling the Mermaid as a complete. I can't see how they'll be able to pull it off for much less than almost 4 bills. I worry that may be a turn off to getting more people into this movement. That said, we are a spoiled bunch - just check out how much all other hobbies cost! It's only a matter of time, I'm telling you - these are the glory days we'll tell our grandchildren about when we are crusty old men, back when candy bars cost a nickel and you could put together a top of the line LDP for 3 and change! I paid 1400 for a fixed gear bike not too long ago, and that is very cheap for a track bike. As far as I'm concerned, I'll never ride it again now that I've found this superior zen-like form of locomotion, and will be listed on Ebay soon, to support my LDP habit.

Regarding the ride height, I have yet to find a way to run low ride height (such as angled riser only without any flat added) without wheelbite. It's gotten to the point where I'm scared to accelerate hard from low speed, or climb hills from being bitten too many times. Getting pitched sucks, fortunately I've always managed to roll right out of it with no more than abrasions. The other night when I was drifting off to sleep, I did one of those twlight flinches/jumps replete with a shout of alarm that frightened my wife...I realized afterward I was dreaming of a frontside bite and the frantic response to get my foot out from under me! At this point I err high with riser, and would tell any newcomer that if they can't handle the ride height, get out the kitchen! Or go get some Randals, maybe they'll work for you and they seem to ride lower without biting.

flogginmonty

Hello,

I have been looking for a LDP that sits lower so it can also be used as an efficient pusher. I have narrowed my choices down to the Subsonic Century 38 or the Gbomb Cambiar. I read a few posts about the Gbomb, but then all the information kind of dried up. Please help me make my decision. I am 39 years old, about 5'9" tall, and weigh about 165-175 depending on how many adult beverages i drink.

Thanks for any input

LDPanda

Although i havent spent a whole lot of time on either, i definitely found the Century easier to pump than the Cambiar. I think the cambiar offers great versatility in that it can be used for flatland one minute and garage bombing the next but for pure distance i would prefer the Century. The century cups the front foot well for pumping and is still plenty low for pushing. I think i tried the lower of the two drops on the century and personally would have prefered less drop but it probably depends how much time you expect to be pushing versus pumping.

flogginmonty

That's the info I was looking for.
Thanks
One more item, I skated for about 20 years (street, ramp, pool) and pushed everywhere. Is it possible to push the Roe Mermaid when needed and pump when needed? I never saw a drop deck until I started researching LDP. I am wanting to replace running with long distance skating so I will need the ability to push and pump. The Mermaid seems to be most everyones top choice for pumping and the Rollsrolls for pushing. But, i can't buy both. Plus, I don't want both. I want one do it all skateboard.

wafflesole

I cant vouch for the pumping side of things. But for pushing the Rollsrolls isn't the best choice.

pavedwave

flogginmonty

Thanks for all the info guys. I got permission from the wife and just ordered the Roe Mermaid complete package from Stokedskateboards. I am thinking that for my first board this was a good decision because i don't know a lot about the different trucks, wheels, and etc. that are available for LDP/ LDPushing. When I skated I just used Independent trucks, abec 3 bearings, and street or ramp wheels. The complete package takes all the guess work out of it for me. I am sure I won't be dissapointed

aschmidt

You won't be...and I can vouch for both of them...

Ian the Groove Worshipper

It's actually a sweet deal, too, especially when you factor in the wedging kit and bushing kit. I think you get a pretty good discount over what you'd pay if you bought the parts from them individually. Just a few months ago if you wanted a Mermaid you had to wait for months, and buy all the individual parts one by one, now you can have the whole enchilada shipped to your house within a week at a much lower price, complete with all the bushings and wedges you need to get your setup dialed. LDP is blowing up! And this is only the beginning.

flogginmonty

Got the new Mermaid complete in today. Went out and skated 13 miles. I was able to pump at least 1.5 miles at a time. It got my heart rate up pretty high due to effort. Ran out of speed if i hit any type of incline. I used all stock bushings and stock wedging (15/5). Gonna switch out bushings tonight. Also gonna play with angled riser combos. when i get longer hardware. Overall, i was super stoked about how my first day went. Can't wait until tomorrow.

jose

Hello floggin. The mermaid looks like a nice board
Did you order the med flex ? at stoked skateboard ?

Moddos

I got the soft Mermaid from Stoked and I've been very very happy with it (I'm only 125lbs, it might be too flexy if you're a lot above that).
With OWO front bushings (cone barrel barrel), I had to glue the cone and barrel together for a good fit, but that setup works really well for me. (I replaced the rear bushings too and added a bit of wedge in front for the extra height.)

pavedwave

flogginmonty

I weigh about 175 and bought the medium flex Mermaid.

Rode yesterday with stock bushings in both trucks (Bennett 5.0/Tracker). I generated a lot of speed by kicking a few times and then really pumping the board, flexing the deck to maintain speed. Switched the bushings out last night with blue cone, white barrel/orange barrel for Bennett and yellow barrel/red barrel for Tracker.

Today I jumped on the board, gave it a few kicks and started pumping, then about 50 feet down the road I ate asphalt. A severe case of wheel bite. I tried tightening down the bushings fairly tight, but I would still get wheel bite.

I was using 15* risers on front and 5* de wedging in the rear. I am running 75mm wheels.

I have switched to the following setup: I am using a thin rubber shock pad, 10+7+2 angled risers (a combination that Pavedwave said was "golden") combined with orange cone, white barrel bushings (super glued together)/blue cone bushing for the front truck. In the rear I have a thin rubber shock pad, 5+4+3 angled risers for a 12* de wedge with yellow barrel/red barrel.

It started raining so didn't get to try it out. I hope it works cause my elbow can't take too many more scrapes and bruises.

stocago

Seems like you need an extra quarter-inch hard riser.

flogginmonty

Thanks for the help.

Should I add that 1/4 riser to my original 15*/5* de wedge? Or add it to the new 19*/12* de wedge?

stocago

Maybe just try it as is. If you were just using the large 15* before, adding an extra 1/8 or 1/4 would definitely help. But now since you've got 3 wedges it might give you just enough clearance. If your thin shock pad is only 1/8 inch, you could go up to 1/4 inch. I just don't like to cut it too close. A gentle nibble is okay, but no nasty bite!

Ian the Groove Worshipper

I think that the suggested riser combos (and bushing recommendations for that matter) are all ideal choices for the Bennett 4.3. After all, this is JP's Bennett hangar of choice, and the Gear Page recommendations pertaining to Bennett setup have been based off of JP's extensive experience with the 4.3.

I've found that when using wider hangars, more riser is needed to avoid wheelbite. If you use the recommended riser combos on he Gear Page that are proven to work well with the 4.3, you will have wheelbite issues with wider hangars if you don't add more flat riser. For this reason, I've sent an email to Stoked suggesting that they take this into consideration when setting up their Mermaid Completes with hangars wider than the 4.3.

It becomes obvious when playing with different width hangars that narrower hangers offer the added benefit of a lower ride height, which seems important to some, and should probably weigh into their consideration of hangar width, accordingly.

Similarly, deviating from the 4.3 width will throw off the Gear Page bushing recommendations, as well. The wider the hanger, the more leverage there is on the bushings. Thus, the wider the hangar, the softer the bushings will feel. Therefore, the recommendations from the Gear page will probably feel too soft if you use a 5.0 or 6.0, so you'll probably want to bump up your bushing duros a step for each wider hangar selected.

pavedwave

In reality I'm running 5.0's more than 4.3's lately. Especially after the couple intense months of riding only the Virage. I don't see a whole lot of difference in bushing squish between these two, so I pretty much just run the same bushings and risers (a super-squished orange Khiro cone bottom, white Khiro barrel middle, and red Carver CX bushing on top -- orange Khiro barrel on top is just as good and easier to order)

But I suspect that's because I use "more than ample" riser with the 4.3, so moving to the 5.0 doesn't require any change.

Where things really change for my setups is moving from 5.0 to 6.0... then I have to throw on a little more riser and I've found the need to replace the white Khiro barrel with an orange.

Good points to raise -- someday, the gear page might get an update Wink

flogginmonty

I am a middle school PE teacher so I took my board into the gym and gave it a go. The setup I described in my previous post is perfect. It is a much different experience then Wednesday when I rode with stock bushings and 15*/5*. I can pump from a dead stop and get the board moving. I can also put both feet over the front truck and turn in fairly tight circle without any wheelbite. Can't wait to get on the trail. I also ordered a Bennett 4.3 and some soft angled risers to experiment with that. I noticed some of you guys live in Florida. I live in Orlando. We have an awesome trail system here. Give me a holler if you want to get together.