| Archive for pavedwave longboarding distance longboarding, flatland pumping, cross-country adventuring, boardwalk cruising, and all things skateboarding and good times |
| LovethePump |
Front Truck Wedging: 10 degrees? 22?What angle is everyone working with for their front, Bennett Truck?The Pavedwave "Gear" section lists 10-15 degrees as typical--and then complicates things with "and sometimes more"! Around the forums it sounds like people are running closer to 22 degrees or so. Has the thought on this matter changed since the Gear section was written? Or, is it just a self-selected group of folks-- the most "ambitious" ones--who are speaking up, and most people are still running 10 to 15 degrees? As for me, I've tried 22 degree wedging and 15 degree wedging and was fairly pleased with both. I'd like to do more testing but it's just such a royal pain to get the screws in and out of all the wedges that I can't do as much as I'd like! One interesting thing I noticed--I think this is what's going on--is that at 15 degrees I get a weird form of "wheel bite." It's more like truck bite, as, unless I'm judging wrong (it's impossible to see), the truck is actually snapping back and hitting its own mounting. I don't think this happened at the sharper angles. Again, I'd like to do more testing, but... Also, about how much riser is everyone using? I've got perhaps half an inch, all totaled up, including the narrow edges of the wedges. My back truck is angled at 7 degrees. SO....what angles are you running? |
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| Alec |
17° front and 10° rear | ||
| pavedwave |
Sounds right in the ballpark Alec. Some go more, some go less. I hold off from getting too dogmatic about a particular angle being the 'best', the same holds true in slalom -- there are preferences and styles. Generally people who ride more flat tight courses have sharper front angles; people who ride faster GS more often can afford less angle in the front.
It's an excellent question and something I'm working out right now going through a bunch of setups. One problem I've seen is that people use different lingo, depending whether they are adding the angle of their baseplate to the angle of wedging they're using along with it. The most important thing on the front IMO is using wedges that are as THIN as possible on the thin end, and sharply angled up to desired on the fat end. I notice the cheap wedges that are widely available and sold in singles are what people usually use (it makes sense) -- but this jacks the board up in the air unnecessarily. Wedging without excess height is really my goal. My stock answer is "get a Khiro wedge kit" because that's the fastest, most market-available way to get set up just right. I'll post something later when I get a few of my front trucks off and check the wedges against the Khiro diagram. |
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| LDPanda |
Front: soft khiro wedge +15* Khiro wedge = ~21*
Rear: Soft khiro wedge + hard Khiro wedge + some flat risers = ~10* I find that using a little less angle in front is better for top end stability and worse for hill climbs and flats, just my findings. My usual course has a lot of long slow hills so i go for more wedging up front. Ive gotten "hangar bite" and even more recently (with my switch to a 4.3 hangar) ive even gotten "wedge bite" where my wheel hit the 15* weding rail. Thats more of a bushing and dialing in issue than anything tho. |
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| bluebugbuster |
On my mermaid I'm running +15* front on a Bennett 6.0, -10* on a Seismic 105 Stable, on the furthest hole setting. It seems to have a good compromise between top end and acceleraion. I have yet to take it uphill.
And on my other LDP board, I'm running +12* on a Bennett 5.0, and -7* on a Seismic 130 Stable. It seems to be more speed oriented, and feels kinda sluggish on the get-go. Usually takes two to three pushes before its in its pumping powerband. Unusual, because its wheelbase is about three inches shorter than the Roe. |
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| Ian the Groove Worshipper |
Sometimes I have to force myself to go against the revered Gear Page recommendations. I find myself prejudiced against certain setups before I've even tried them just because JP didn't dig 'em. After all, he is our guru and I heed greatly whatever JP recommends. But occasionally once I do try something different, I end up liking it. For instance, I was digging my CX with 2 degrees wedge. Now I'm loving my RTX more than my Bennett. Blasphemy!
I've been experimenting with less wedging in front. Of course, I'll probably return to this post a few months from now, and the RTX honeymoon will be over, and I'll be right back riding my Bennett with 15 degrees wedging. I'm currently running 7 degrees on RTX106 and 10 degrees dewedge on Airflow. I agree that less dewedging makes it harder to accelerate from slow speeds. But once you get going 10mph and up, it feels really nice. I live where it's flat so I'm less concerned with hill climbing ability. |
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| barefootboarder |
Ian is a CX good with a wedge? I've always run mine absolutely flat. I'd like to try to improve it if you can recommend that it makes a noticeable difference. 
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| stocago |
I have three LDP decks, all with Bennetts in front. My wedging varies. On my stiffest deck I have the most wedging, 15 degrees. On my flexiest I have 11 degrees. My dedicated track deck has only 7 degrees. I can't say for sure that less wedging is fastest, but that seems to be my preference for that setup. It takes more effort to get going, but holds speed well. It's not set up for long distance.
In the past I recall trying 20-22 degrees and kind of liking it, but it seemed more suited for (up)hilly terrain. |
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| Ian the Groove Worshipper |
I thought it made a pretty noticeable difference, making it turn quicker. You should try it! It may not be for everyone. |
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| pavedwave |
That's a pretty common setup for me as well. Another setup I just pulled off a board came to 19*, from combining 10, 7, and 2 - plus a thin flat rubber shock pad. That one feels golden. I snapped a shot because this is really one of the most often asked questions. The inevitable follow-up question is what hardware: My advice to anyone would be to get a pack of 2.5", 2.25", 2", and 1.5" hardware bolts for starters. Note that the bolt range just for this front truck was 2.5" for the fat end and 1.5" for the front. 
Rear dewedging is around 10--12 degrees. The most important thing for me there is levelling -- putting both trucks plus all the planned wedging underneath them, and set them next to each other on the bottom of the board. Then get down to that level and eyeball the height of the axles. I try to keep my rear axles at least the same height, if not a little higher, than the front one. So I always set up my front truck wedging first, do this quick height test, then add whatever thin risers I might need on the rear to make up the difference. I use at least one thick rubber angled riser pad against the board, plus one thick hard plastic angled riser, then any other flat ones for height. |
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| model.citizen |
what benefits are there to having the back height level with the front?
i've kept the back of mine a smidgeon lower than the front...feels a bit nicer when putting your foot back on the back after pushing i guess, being a little lower. plus the fact that i didn't anticipate any wheelbite in the back due to the reduced lean and narrower deck width at that point. |
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| pavedwave |
My theory in a nutshell is much the same as that of Chi running-- that your energy is always moving and falling forward, especially since we're mostly on flats and inclines, and for hours/miles at a time. So I want my board to be "throwing" me forward down the trail. Whereas on the short course like in slalom, having a lowered rear doesn't matter much because 1. its all about quick power and sprinting and 2. it's more often gravity-assisted, downhill. This could be more a mental model than a physics reality, but the mind is a powerful thing 
Switching push feet around the center / flexier point of the deck is what I do for pushing up steep hills. |
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| RiPPer |
James I wonder if your thinking here is along similar lines to Chris Yandall advocating larger wheels in the rear with smaller in the front. I've read this statement on his site and couldn't really get what he was saying "Larger wheels in the back and smaller up front allows stability rides simply by keeping weight near tail of board and when one's weight is forward, turning the nose gently or on a dime is a piece of cake!" Do you run your the rear of your board higher than the front, or just equal? What do you think about mixing wheel sizes? |
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| model.citizen |
one would think that with larger wheels in the back, you'd need to alter the front truck angle a smidgeon to make up for the loss of degrees?
i always thought it would be bigger up front - to help roll over stuff (esp. with the hell truck angle up front) and keep the speed - and smaller at the back since it's more-or-less following the front. also, would a smaller rear wheel setup provide any acceleration benefits when pumping? |
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| Moddos |
A quick question about Bennett 5.0s and >15 degrees wedging.
I just increased wedging from 15->15+2 using the Khiro angled rail wedge riser kit, and I've had a lot of trouble getting the truck back on (took some force to get the bolts back in). How do you deal with the nuts being at such an angle to the truck? Is it safe to just leave them at the odd angle without any washer between? (Haven't got space for the washer, need to get longer bolts -- just want to make sure this won't break the nuts while I'm riding) |
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| model.citizen |
torque up the nuts slowly, and don't tighten them too much (which can lead to breakage while riding due to the tension and the rubber riser).
as they tighten up, the bolts should start to deform slighty and bend into place. you'll probably find after a good couple of runs afterwards you'll need to snug down the nuts a little more. use truss-head hardware or some wide flat washers under each bolt to prevent the bolt from pulling through the deck, and to also keep the top of the bolt parallel to the deck (which allows the bolt to bend, rather than seat itself on an angle). |
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| prikelpit |
I am always excited when I see pictures of padewave!
The hardware looks mostly like this as if they were in a mine have been in use! Repect! For me, and LDP-boards are always too high! Too shaky! And nervously for departures until 30-40km / h! If it is only 50km to 2-3 times slightly downhill I would like to go board, the LDP still has allround properties! at such times, for example, routes to ride (bike path Volcano Germany, an old railway line) I love this spot! 90minuten almost only gently downhill! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GsJ7bVy8nY But also for the mostly flat Flämmingskate I wanted no wobble cucumber! That's why I moved from Carver, gog and Bennet in Paris 150mm with Holey bushing (red and yellow) with 11 degree wedges remained! The red Holeys are now about 200km old and I weigh 90kg. The board is 12.5 cm high! up to 35km / h is foot brake easy (on average, experienced riders)! Also highly recommended for people who have multiple boards! [/img]https://fotoalbum.web.de/gast/harnischmacher/flaeming_april_2009/presentation?startImageId=124030831&startImageCount=undefined[img] [/img] https://fotoalbum.web.de/gast/har...846&startImageCount=undefined [img] |
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| LDPanda |
Awesome video and pics.
Cucumber! |
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| pavedwave |
Always great to see the trails there!!
I see the "high LDP" perception on Silverfish all the time. Much of the skate world thinks that topmount == skyscraper height boards. I think a lot of this comes from years back where we were mounting up Carver CX's and had to put on extra risers to avoid that weird bite that the Carvers tend toward. When you finally set up your LDP's with more traditional trucks, and with more emphasis on sharply angled risers, rather than just raw height, then measure the distance from top of deck to ground, you should find the overall height (including that of the Cucumber) is 4.0"--4.5". In contrast, my drop-through decks are around 3.5"--4.0". Not a huge difference, in my experience riding both types of setups on long distance journeys. Additionally, I take my topmount LDP's close to 40mph with confidence. No wobbles -- always have had the topmount preference. I think Chaput also has talked (at length) about the traction advantages with a topmount at speed. Works for me! |
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| model.citizen |
i've been taking my Walkabouts down a few hills at decent speeds (40-50kph) without issue...feels almost as good as my drop-thru board, you've just gotta be a little more cautious with keeping the front foot stable.
no wobbles on mine ever...so far! 
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| prikelpit |
Probably my english is too bad!
sorry for I wanted no dispute! "Cucumber Board in germany = = Pumpgurke! is a friendly nickname for these unusual vehicles! Silverfish is advertising! max 2% there is valuable information! Between 3.5-4.5 is a lot! An artificial hip?
10-11 mph, I can just ride with my flat setup easy! For the record, I would also try another setuup, carver, Benett assemble or modify, but I do LDP because of the sporting fun! Probably like most in this very good forum? If I seek 40mph I usually wear leather clothes! I ride more often with professionals, including reigning World Champions They can with a boardpool foot brake at 40mph easy! Not me! How high is modified by a Bennet / tracker setup from the ground up to the stand area? I need a slavery me on this board helps! Please read it with a smile! Prikel |
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| pavedwave |
All good vibes here Prikel! | ||
| Klaus |
Hi.
The wedge and de-wedge in degrees is in relation to what ? I don´t understand this de-wedge concept ( since ther´s a wedg anyhow). Is it in relation to the deck, the KP or what? Thanks |
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| stridey |
A 'wedge' would normally be the name given to a wedge that adds steering to a truck., hence a 'de-wedge' would be adding a wedge that makes the truck less turny.
So..if you apply a wedge with thin end forward on both front and back trucks you have 'wedged' the front....and 'de-wedged' the back truck. Hope that helps. |
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| Klaus |
Yes it helped.
Thanks |
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