Custom Machined specialized LDP trucks

LD skater since 1971 · Custom Machined specialized LDP trucks

I was wondering if it would be worth making a custom machined purpose built hangers for LDP in the spirit of the split fire?

How much did the CNC milled project cost the split fire innovator?

Is their enough of us to warrant designing and manufacturing a custom LDP hanger?

The reason I ask these questions is I think a custom truck set up can be designed that would makes LDP faster and more efficient so we can create more forward pump energy with less effort.
What do you think?

rodgon

id buy one. no doubt.

mrgumdropman · me too

if u have a project i will buy a truck or two

pavedwave

i shot off a note to Gary, his site asphaltplayground seems to be out of commission now. but maybe he can give some idea here.

you might also ask Chaput what his plans are for his slalom/pump truck that's been in the proto stages for way too long, and he might even be willing to have you test one out??

LD skater since 1971

Myself I can't afford to manufacture one I just wanted to spur conversation about a specialized Truck.
I just think it would be nice to make a truck were we don't half to do all the wedging and king pin modification. That will propel us faster and more efficiently.
I thought maybe one of us is a engineer or a Machinist for a living and could make a few hangers.
Maybe we could come up in the conversation what kind of truck geometry would propel us faster and more efficiently size and kind of king pin, Triple bushing truck and other features. Maybe we could approach someone who manufactures trucks to make them. Or we could just design a hanger with a say a Tracker RTX or Bennett baseplate. Also to make it easy have the axles screw in to the hanger like the split fire.
Then design and manufacture the proto hanger on EMachine shop
www.emachineshop.com/
I known a lot of yoyo player who have used this service to make one off aluminum yoyo's or small parts. If it works then we all can get more made. I was also on a Radio control rocker crawler board they designed their own chassis asa group project. They used Emachine shop.

ZapZang

I MIGHT know a machinist who'd be interested if we could provide specs/plans.

pavedwave

I haven't heard back from Gary on this. However I did recently share some thoughts with a guy that was thinking about "precision" trucks for LDP (such as Radikals/GOGs.) Essentially I find that maintenance is the key difference between slalom and LDP. We don't pick up our boards to inspect and tighten them every 30 second "run."

LDP rides are rough n' tough. More like multiple hours of riding over rugged terrain at a time. In the Northwest especially we ride trails and roads through rain, puddles, mud, leaves, gravel, etc. Not the nice smooth-swept slalom courses that you normally use precision trucks on.

What this means is that crud and dirt gets in the bearings, you hit rocks more often, and you ding up those pretty trucks fast. I've recently been having to throw away bearings because they got locked onto the precision axles, and I had to use a small hammer to tap them off when it came time to change wheels-- that's because the exact 8mm axle with just a little extra crud, locks onto the Biltin bearing spacers like superglue.

The other thing you have to be careful about with precision trucks are to make sure the axles are screwed into the hangars tight. Some people use locktite to make the seal permanent. Others prefer to just tighten the axles every now and then, so they'll still have the option to change axle lengths later. The risk in doing so is that if the axle loosens, you could end up snapping one, especially if you power off the rear (as you should!) My buddy Patrick broke a couple of these axles this year, and I broke a couple over the last few years.

Design-wise, the implication is you need to make sure your axles will recess into the hangars such that ALL the threads disappear, and the smooth axle shank is what you see in contact with the hangar itself. Why Radikals, GOGs, and other precision trucks bust at the axle is almost always because of axle loosening, then the threaded portion being exposed to more load.

blake

ok so i am no professional but i might be able to make atlease a hanger. the only thing is i dont have the experience that you guys have with LDP so i dont know what do to, to make it a LDP specific truck/hanger. maybe if one of you guys draw me up a plan i can work with JP and work on atlease a prototype.

rodgon

dude i really want someone to do this. ive been dying to try some pumping specific trucks... LDP specific trucks and someone here as to be able to come up with somehting. ^_^

pavedwave

blake if you want to go for real on this, we should talk with Spencer Smith as well, his Dad is an incredible wealth of knowledge on the machining side of things.

if we really ratcheted this up we'd want to generate some venture capital...not the easiest thing to pitch something as niche-market as this. for now I'd just have to be realistic about what I can do, like first, selling old stuff in the attic on eBay to generate funds Wink

blake

ya i would be down for this. my dad can probably help some to. i can even sell my DH deck for some funds. i like LDP and Slalom better any way and in the wet season i have no use for it. yeah longboarding is my life so if i can start doing this as a job or even just a side like subsonic or roe i would be so down. i am trying to work on boards to but every one needs trucks to. so JP if your down i am down.

pavedwave

well to be honest I'd be happy to facilitate communication and get you and Spencer working together, and I'd be up for designing, testing the hell out of, and refining the trucks, though I hate riding stuff until it breaks-- done enough of that-- which means we would have to make it as bullet-proof as possible on the first proto!

i'm really hoping Fluitt can share some insight, he's the guy that produced the Splitfire trucks. i know that eventually it took too much of his time and he was contemplating a move to Chinese manufacturing and decided to leave it at that point. if you've watched the truck market over the last decade you'll see it takes a good year or so to go from conception to production -- on anything that lasts in the market anyway.

blake

as i said before if your down i am down. so first before funds and everythign i thing we should atlease have a vague idea about what the plan will be so thats were i will need your help

pavedwave

The first thing of course is research, and tons of that. There's been quite a number of guys taking a crack at precision trucks and DH hangars (and quite a few precision trucks cracking) Wink

Equally important is agreeing on what requirements are essential -- what problems are we solving, what questions are we answering with a new truck design? I noticed someone on a truck thread, mentioning the "hangars must be easily removed", presumably so that the truck is easily adjustable. I'd say although adjustability is convenient, it's not an absolute requirement. After all, PVD hangars were not so easy to remove, yet the trucks were some of the highest regarded in precision/slalom because of their sheer performance. I would much prefer a truck that's a little harder to adjust but never has catastrophic failures, to one that is easy to adjust yet blows out at some point.

Personally, I'd like to see someone strive for simplicity keeping this in mind:

1. distributes load evenly over all stress points
2. uses as few moving parts as possible -- only two parts in total is optimal
3. uses no screw-in parts. optimally, axles should be contiguous and unbroken.
4. baseplates alone solve wedging / dewedging, only flat risers needed, if any.

It would be great if the whole 'double pivot' idea can be solved strictly by shaping and machining a single hangar unit, rather than adding kingpins. The thing I really like about traditional Indys, Bennetts, Trackers and Randals, are that they are simply a baseplate and a hangar.

This first shot's a truck idea apparently conceived by Geezer-X, and Confuscious (from the Fish) was working toward it...

NCDSA herbn's double pivot-pin...

And of course Chaput's Fyre:

blake

there very first picture really caught my eye. It looks almost like a classic truck with some new age improvements. i have been studying people pumping for a little bit now. and i was thinking of leaning towards more of a airflow or splitfire design. thats why the first truck caught my eye more because it looks like a mixture of them both.

pavedwave

I've wondered a long time whether it would be worth the time and effort (and just how easy/hard) to pre-bend a single, continuous axle, instead of having two separate split axle parts threaded into the hangar. Something like this:

blake

that is a neat idea and if it is not to hard (which i think it would not be that hard) what would the advantage of that? would it be a little stronger? i think i am gunna go with that design because it looks the most promising

pavedwave

Yeah, the most common split-axle design mistake has been not ending the threaded portion soon enough, exposing the threads to stress. Malcolm's GOG broke this way, and I've had it happen on Splitfires as well.

I know straight Randal axles have broken, so the plan is not fool-proof, but I do believe a continuous axle would add strength. Either this, or else embedding the threads even deeper into the hangar, and making the insertion permanent with JB-weld or loc-tite, I know this loc-tite is something people already recommend on these trucks to keep the axles in place, but it still doesn't address the design issue.

blake

i posted this on nwlb to see what they think and they havent said anything yet but lets hope theyd o soon

RiPPer

Do the Virage LDP trucks eliminate the need for this project or is there still room for improvement in high end LDP specific trucks?

stocago

I'm very interested and curious about Chaput's Fyre truck, but it'll probably be out of my price range.

egret

stocago

Links to older posts on the 'fish from Chaput himself:
http://www.silverfishlongboarding...-11-updates-3.html#post1297577620
http://www.silverfishlongboarding...-11-updates-4.html#post1297577965
http://www.silverfishlongboarding...-11-updates-6.html#post1297581847
I'm guessing they will be pricey.

egret

Titanium. Sweet. Muchos pesos.

stocago

Two-hundred bucks a pop.
http://www.silverfishlongboarding...11-updates-62.html#post1297817547

egret

egret

From the same Silverfish thread (Chris Chaput):

egret

I couldn't resist and got the Fyres with 6.25 inch hangers. Just the process of going to the shop and getting them was an interseting experience. I got to meet Chris Chaput and even got to ride that drop thru a bit. I was surprised how well it pumped considering the size of the Centrax and the leverage with the drop thru. I wish I could take it out a for few miles.

I went in with the intention of getting just one truck but after trying them out decided to save myself the trouble of coming back for a second one. I got the 50 and 10 degree plates and put them on a Pulse. In a nutshell they pump effortlessly. Chris Chaput is not exaggerating wIth his sportscar comparisons. I am having a hard time believing the average times I am getting and want to put more miles to make sure, but it is looking very good so far. The sections of trail that get little steep and I have to push usually I am powering over. The downhill parts are cake. I am usually stressing at speed hoping my Bennett won't dive. The Fyres I swear spoke to me and said "is this all you got, you big puss?" Saturday I went against the afternoon wind and it was not the struggle it usually is. I love them. Pure joy.

LDPanda

Thats quite an endorsement. Which bennet do you normally run, 5 or 6? I assume the rear is sticky and precise but what does the front feel like? Does it have any dive or is more akin to the splitfire pro/virage feel? Do you feel like you have acess to all your pumping styles or is it restricted to just big sweeping pumps or just up front wiggle pumps or anything? Can you compare it to any other trucks?

Sorry to bombard you with questions but before i drop four bills on a set of wide'ish trucks i want to know everything Laughing

stocago

I've been on the fence for a few days now, wondering if I should pull the trigger on these. I also was wondering how it could compare to the surfy Bennett that I love in front. And for the rear I had been thinking 20 degree baseplate. How does the 10* feel, compared to a Seismic or Tracker dewedged?

egret

Panda, I am awful at technical explanations. I think abstractly and go by feel. I usually run Bennett 6.0, and I prefer wider hangars but Fyres don't feel as wide as they are (even with the centrax). Fyres turn beautifully but no dive and turnier than Virages for sure. I did not try the 20 degree and would see no reason for me to increase the angle on mine. I think the 10 degree is just fine. I have not ridden anything that feels quite like it. My Grennett/Seismic setup lately had gotten very creaky and squeaky. I busted the kingpin. I have been feeling that I am doing something not meant to be done to the Bennetts. The Fyres so far appear to be overkill. What I have dished out so far doesn't appear to phase them. My concern is the long term durability but Chaput is confident. I asked him about the testing,that being racing trucks are they being switched out regularly for races? He looked at me like I was insane and said something to effect of how rich do I think his company is to be using fresh trucks regularly? While I am not happy he is not that rich it reassured me as to the time having come for the trucks' release. I wish you guys lived closer and could try them out. From reading you guys' posts I think Stocago would love them. Panda, I don't know if you want something narrower.

stocago

How much riser, if any, is needed to prevent wheelbite on your Pulse? It'd be cool to see a picture of your setup. How much shorter did your wheelbase get? Thanks.

egret

I've been meaning to post pics and rant. I will. I'm using half inch hard risers and the longest wheelbase. Chris Chaput thought the Pulse wheelbase was short and he was talking about 36 inch wb.

stocago

So would something like a 45-46" Strangelove/Pulse be ideal? I've ordered two slightly longer decks, but had been wondering if the jump should be even bigger, like 45" or more, since reverse kingpin trucks shorten the wheelbase.

pavedwave

egret

Oh yes. I busted the kingpin on the Bennett. It was a inverted grindking pin. James, don't think your warnings about inverted were not ringing in my head on my long walk home. Haha.

As far as the durability of the Fyres, we will see. The sphericals should be easy enough to replace. I just need the tool. My fear is for the queenpins and how they will handle the relentless knocking back and forth over crap surfaces. They are an interesting design but I need to post pics to show what I mean.

Stocago. I don't know but a longer board with these it would be worth pursuing. I was thinking of the Galac dancer. The pulse feels great as is and I would have to try the bigger wheelbase to have an opinion. Chaputs Big Red X felt great but I can't make an opinion by just going up and down the block a couple times and not being able to get over the front truck.

JeffVyain

I just spent the last half hour trying to figure out where to buy these trucks...to no avail. Where can you purchase? and for how much? These sound just plain sick.

egret

http://www.sk8trip.com/mm5/merchant.mvc

call them. Leave a message but if you don't hear anything by this afternoon don't expect to until Monday.

I went by this morning and dropped off the hangers. The retaining ring on the rear hanger spherical kept popping out yesterday so Mr. Chaput said he would seat them better for me. I need to stay off the forum when I get something new. Everytime i say something is working for me some complication happens right after. I waited a week thinking I was in the clear and had gotten some miles on, I log in and pop! No biggie other than possibly not being able to ride them until after thanksgiving. Still.

Custom Machined specialized LDP trucks

me too