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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:25 am Post subject: Front Truck Wedging: 10 degrees? 22?
What angle is everyone working with for their front, Bennett Truck?
The Pavedwave "Gear" section lists 10-15 degrees as typical--and then complicates things with "and sometimes more"!
Around the forums it sounds like people are running closer to 22 degrees or so. Has the thought on this matter changed since the Gear section was written? Or, is it just a self-selected group of folks-- the most "ambitious" ones--who are speaking up, and most people are still running 10 to 15 degrees?
As for me, I've tried 22 degree wedging and 15 degree wedging and was fairly pleased with both. I'd like to do more testing but it's just such a royal pain to get the screws in and out of all the wedges that I can't do as much as I'd like!
One interesting thing I noticed--I think this is what's going on--is that at 15 degrees I get a weird form of "wheel bite." It's more like truck bite, as, unless I'm judging wrong (it's impossible to see), the truck is actually snapping back and hitting its own mounting. I don't think this happened at the sharper angles. Again, I'd like to do more testing, but...
Also, about how much riser is everyone using? I've got perhaps half an inch, all totaled up, including the narrow edges of the wedges.
Sounds right in the ballpark Alec. Some go more, some go less. I hold off from getting too dogmatic about a particular angle being the 'best', the same holds true in slalom -- there are preferences and styles. Generally people who ride more flat tight courses have sharper front angles; people who ride faster GS more often can afford less angle in the front.
It's an excellent question and something I'm working out right now going through a bunch of setups. One problem I've seen is that people use different lingo, depending whether they are adding the angle of their baseplate to the angle of wedging they're using along with it.
The most important thing on the front IMO is using wedges that are as THIN as possible on the thin end, and sharply angled up to desired on the fat end. I notice the cheap wedges that are widely available and sold in singles are what people usually use (it makes sense) -- but this jacks the board up in the air unnecessarily. Wedging without excess height is really my goal. My stock answer is "get a Khiro wedge kit" because that's the fastest, most market-available way to get set up just right. I'll post something later when I get a few of my front trucks off and check the wedges against the Khiro diagram.
Rear: Soft khiro wedge + hard Khiro wedge + some flat risers = ~10*
I find that using a little less angle in front is better for top end stability and worse for hill climbs and flats, just my findings. My usual course has a lot of long slow hills so i go for more wedging up front.
Ive gotten "hangar bite" and even more recently (with my switch to a 4.3 hangar) ive even gotten "wedge bite" where my wheel hit the 15* weding rail. Thats more of a bushing and dialing in issue than anything tho.
On my mermaid I'm running +15* front on a Bennett 6.0, -10* on a Seismic 105 Stable, on the furthest hole setting. It seems to have a good compromise between top end and acceleraion. I have yet to take it uphill.
And on my other LDP board, I'm running +12* on a Bennett 5.0, and -7* on a Seismic 130 Stable. It seems to be more speed oriented, and feels kinda sluggish on the get-go. Usually takes two to three pushes before its in its pumping powerband. Unusual, because its wheelbase is about three inches shorter than the Roe.
Sometimes I have to force myself to go against the revered Gear Page recommendations. I find myself prejudiced against certain setups before I've even tried them just because JP didn't dig 'em. After all, he is our guru and I heed greatly whatever JP recommends. But occasionally once I do try something different, I end up liking it. For instance, I was digging my CX with 2 degrees wedge. Now I'm loving my RTX more than my Bennett. Blasphemy!
I've been experimenting with less wedging in front.
Of course, I'll probably return to this post a few months from now, and the RTX honeymoon will be over, and I'll be right back riding my Bennett with 15 degrees wedging.
I'm currently running 7 degrees on RTX106 and 10 degrees dewedge on Airflow.
I agree that less dewedging makes it harder to accelerate from slow speeds. But once you get going 10mph and up, it feels really nice. I live where it's flat so I'm less concerned with hill climbing ability.
Ian is a CX good with a wedge? I've always run mine absolutely flat. I'd like to try to improve it if you can recommend that it makes a noticeable difference.
I have three LDP decks, all with Bennetts in front. My wedging varies. On my stiffest deck I have the most wedging, 15 degrees. On my flexiest I have 11 degrees. My dedicated track deck has only 7 degrees. I can't say for sure that less wedging is fastest, but that seems to be my preference for that setup. It takes more effort to get going, but holds speed well. It's not set up for long distance.
In the past I recall trying 20-22 degrees and kind of liking it, but it seemed more suited for (up)hilly terrain.
Ian is a CX good with a wedge? I've always run mine absolutely flat. I'd like to try to improve it if you can recommend that it makes a noticeable difference.
I thought it made a pretty noticeable difference, making it turn quicker. You should try it! It may not be for everyone.
Another setup I just pulled off a board came to 19*, from combining 10, 7, and 2 - plus a thin flat rubber shock pad. That one feels golden. I snapped a shot because this is really one of the most often asked questions.
The inevitable follow-up question is what hardware: My advice to anyone would be to get a pack of 2.5", 2.25", 2", and 1.5" hardware bolts for starters. Note that the bolt range just for this front truck was 2.5" for the fat end and 1.5" for the front.
Rear dewedging is around 10--12 degrees. The most important thing for me there is levelling -- putting both trucks plus all the planned wedging underneath them, and set them next to each other on the bottom of the board. Then get down to that level and eyeball the height of the axles. I try to keep my rear axles at least the same height, if not a little higher, than the front one.
So I always set up my front truck wedging first, do this quick height test, then add whatever thin risers I might need on the rear to make up the difference. I use at least one thick rubber angled riser pad against the board, plus one thick hard plastic angled riser, then any other flat ones for height.
what benefits are there to having the back height level with the front?
i've kept the back of mine a smidgeon lower than the front...feels a bit nicer when putting your foot back on the back after pushing i guess, being a little lower. plus the fact that i didn't anticipate any wheelbite in the back due to the reduced lean and narrower deck width at that point.
My theory in a nutshell is much the same as that of Chi running-- that your energy is always moving and falling forward, especially since we're mostly on flats and inclines, and for hours/miles at a time. So I want my board to be "throwing" me forward down the trail. Whereas on the short course like in slalom, having a lowered rear doesn't matter much because 1. its all about quick power and sprinting and 2. it's more often gravity-assisted, downhill. This could be more a mental model than a physics reality, but the mind is a powerful thing
Switching push feet around the center / flexier point of the deck is what I do for pushing up steep hills.
My theory in a nutshell is much the same as that of Chi running-- that your energy is always moving and falling forward, So I want my board to be "throwing" me forward down the trail.
James I wonder if your thinking here is along similar lines to Chris Yandall advocating larger wheels in the rear with smaller in the front. I've read this statement on his site and couldn't really get what he was saying
"Larger wheels in the back and smaller up front allows stability rides simply by keeping weight near tail of board and when one's weight is forward, turning the nose gently or on a dime is a piece of cake!"
Do you run your the rear of your board higher than the front, or just equal?
What do you think about mixing wheel sizes?
one would think that with larger wheels in the back, you'd need to alter the front truck angle a smidgeon to make up for the loss of degrees?
i always thought it would be bigger up front - to help roll over stuff (esp. with the hell truck angle up front) and keep the speed - and smaller at the back since it's more-or-less following the front.
also, would a smaller rear wheel setup provide any acceleration benefits when pumping?
A quick question about Bennett 5.0s and >15 degrees wedging.
I just increased wedging from 15->15+2 using the Khiro angled rail wedge riser kit, and I've had a lot of trouble getting the truck back on (took some force to get the bolts back in).
How do you deal with the nuts being at such an angle to the truck? Is it safe to just leave them at the odd angle without any washer between?
(Haven't got space for the washer, need to get longer bolts -- just want to make sure this won't break the nuts while I'm riding)
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